Getting Comfortable w/Being Uncomfortable | Drew Bogan

Luke: 0:11

Welcome to season two, episode 11 of the Iron Win podcast. I'm so humbled and thankful for the growth and the reach of the show. That cannot happen without you. Our listeners. So thank you so much and please continue to share our show with anyone who might find value because word of mouth is how we all can make the biggest impact. And with that, can't wait to dive into today's episode with, our guest, Drew Bogan, who is a history teacher and head lacrosse coach at Park Tutor School in Indianapolis. After researching Coach Bogan, I'm certain we will all walk away better leaders after learning his purpose, his vision, and his goals. Coach, thanks for hopping on with us today.

Drew: 0:52

My pleasure.

Luke: 0:53

"I wanna get started at one of the most important questions and. You're, why, so why are you a.

Drew: 0:59

I "I, have "I. Gotta say. I, knew "I wanted to be a coach, probably before "I even knew "I wanted to be a teacher. and a lot of it just has to do with the, the joy that comes in, in the competition, both, with self, and also with, with other teams. Um, the experience of being on a team, I'm, I'm fortunate. I've just had a string of, of fantastic coaches, coach. Through my life and the lessons "I learned through it, "I just felt were so applicable, so important, and so unique to sports that they, they were, they were lessons, "I was learning there that "I wasn't learning, uh, in the classroom or, or other places in life. And it was just, it, it ignited a, a passion early on that, you know, if this is something that "I. That "I can do for others, that "I can do for young people that "I can pass on and, and provide them these experiences and these and this growth. you know, "I would love to do that.

Luke: 1:56

So you have decided to also be a teacher, as you referenced, so you are now fully immersed in the kids' educational experience. Why did you decide to go that route as opposed to say, sticking solely as a club coach in the cross or maybe going to coach at the collegiate to professional level?

Drew: 2:15

Um, I've loved school as well. Um, I've loved learning. Uh, it's, it's funny. "I started as a, uh, You know, "I, "I intended to be originally, a college professor. And, and while "I was, while "I was working on a degree, "I was, "I was serving as a ta. And, uh, and finding out how, how little time college professors spend teaching and, and really realize like, this wasn't gonna satisfy me. "I wanted to, "I wanted to spend the majority of my time educating. had lunch with a, one of my favorite high school teachers and sort of laid out. My confusion, my my fears about potentially teaching at the high school level. And he kind of dismissed those and said, you know, if all these things were true, "I wouldn't have been doing this for, for 30, 40 years as he had been. so got into it at the, the high school level, and would not have expected to have ended up where "I am now at the middle school level. Middle school was "I, think "I then. I'm not unique in this was, you know, about the worst time of my life. It's just, you know, full of awkwardness and frustration and. But it also means that, you know, "I have that perspective and, you know, "I can, "I can work on empathizing and hopefully helping kids to have a, have a better experience at. so "I get to "I, get to be in, you know, with kids every day, um, throughout the year and kind of contribute to their growth. And, I tell you one of the, one of the best. Side effects of it has been when I've had a student maybe in my, in my homeroom, which is a unique experience in seventh grade, and then also as a student, and then they wind up playing for me for four years in high school. You know, it's like, I, get the extras. But "I get the six years of really, uh, being able to invest, um, in their growth and really watch them, watch them change and watch them mature and see their successes and their, and their failures throughout it. And they just a, um, it's an experience. "I don't, "I don't take for granted. "I. Don't think a lot of people get to do something like that.

Luke: 4:07

So you mentioned the fear, maybe that's not the right word. The concern about being at the high school level and working with high school aged kids. And that's something "I hear a lot when "I, when people hear what "I do for a living. They almost wanna give me a hug. And you can see the empathy in their eyes, like, oh man, dealing with today's teenagers. Which by the way, "I, think people would've said that back in the fifties to sixties. You name it. "I. "I. Just think people "I. Don't think the kids there are any different. Right. Different times. But anyway, my point being is "I have a lot of listeners that are just getting into the profession or they're considering getting into the profession. So what were some of your concerns that you met with one of your mentors?

Drew: 4:48

they, they really had to do with whether "I was going to be, intellectually satisfied. You know, that "I was, "I was thinking to myself, having not pursued that career. So not really, having looked at "I, had all these people telling me, you know, you should think about teaching high school. You'd be a great high school teacher. And "I said that. What it seems like to me is it might just be the same thing, class after class, week after week, year after year, and. you know, really just get stuck in a rut like that. so this is what "I went to talk to my high school history teacher about, and he told me a lot about how, you know, he, he's always reading, he's always learning new things. He's, he's rolling over like a third of his curriculum every year, just depending on something new he learned or if something has become more relevant to current events or less relevant. And, that there's actually a lot of that, um, a lot of that satisfaction in it. I "I get the same reaction to when "I tell people, "I teach middle schoolers, "I, "I. Get the people who wanna give me a hug and say, you know, like, do you get combat pay in addition to your salary for dealing with, kids in that like, horribly hilariously awkward stage of life? But, it's, it's certainly a calling. I. Suppose it's not for everybody, but you know, "I hear about jobs other people do, and "I say "I could, you know, "I Don't think "I could do what you do. and "I "I also have this wonderful in the spring during the lacrosse season, this wonderful, balance where "I "I spend all day with 12 and 13 year olds and kind of in, in that mindset. And then "I get to change clothes and go outside in the fresh air and hang out with, you know, 16, 17, 18 year olds who have just a much different perspective on life, who actually have like, developed senses of humor and perspective. And so it's this, it, it's literally and figuratively a, a breath of fresh air at the end of the day to, to spend a little time with an older age group. It's wonder.

Luke: 6:40

Yeah, it's interesting when "I do meet elementary or middle school teachers, they'll empathize and, oh, "I "I could never do what you do. Working with the high school level. And I'm thinking as a high school teacher, man, "I could never be an elementary or a middle school teacher. So you do get to experience both ends of the spectrum, which "I have to imagine is very eye-opening, but also very rewarding. Like you said, that six years of growth, "I. Think about who you are as a seventh grader and who you become as a senior. "I mean. That's just gotta be a very rewarding experience, that you get to see firsthand. The other thing I've gotten to learn about you is you have very clear mantras of coaching, and we are very aligned in terms of what we believe in terms of our purpose and what grounds us as a coach. And one thing that "I really enjoyed learning about you is. Believe that every member in your program brings value and "I agree wholeheartedly with that. And being a football coach, "I mean sometimes we have teams as large as 80, 85 members and "I. "I do believe that every one of them brings value and every one of 'em are important. The problem is they don't always feel that way as individuals. And sometimes society doesn't tell 'em that either because they're kind of an invisible team member at. So how do you ensure each individual team member does feel value?

Drew: 8:07

I. I'm glad you brought it up cuz this is, this is one of the biggest things Lacrosse, the game of lacrosse has, provided me with so much in my life. The, the line "I always use is that like, it, gives you this sense of, gratitude. and it, it makes you want to, to try to out-give the game, and you just, you just can't, no matter how much you try to give back to it or, or give through it, the game is always gonna, it's always gonna give you you more. It's one of these wonderful full properties of it. And, so the idea that, that someone would play and not experience that, is one of those things that's just very "I important for me to, to avoid. You know, when "I communicate to kids in the classroom is similar to what "I communicate to them on the field. if if you are putting in the work, you, you are doing what everyone else is doing. You are showing up every day. You are in uniform, you are doing the drills, you were doing the workouts, then we're all on, we're all on the. Playing field. Okay. And if you, if you're in my classroom and we're playing a, a competitive geography game and you don't know as much about geography as somebody else, and "I say, you know what that means about you, it means you don't know about geography as much as somebody else. That's it. It has. It has no bearing on your value as a person or a student or a friend, a son or daughter, you know, and "I. This is what "I tell my players, like, if, if you can throw the ball in the net better than somebody else, then guess what? You're better at throwing the ball in the net than somebody else's. that's a skill. and we're all working to get better at it. But the thing is, like a, a team as an organism is, far more important than that. I've had the privilege of, being able to be around some really successful teams and "I find that what a lot of people outside of sports and maybe even inside of sports don't appreciate is on those best teams. How important. the role of the guys who don't get the playing time is, like the best teams I've ever been around have had the best second strings. The guys who, who model the hard work, even when they're not, getting the, the ink and the paper about it. The guys who push the starters every day, they have to fight to keep their job. They have to, you know, they have to be competitive. Um, they're getting challenged at practice all the time. You know, those are the guys who, who you may not know as well, but they make such a big difference. You know, I've, I've seen some teams where they have the outstanding first strength, just clearly the most talented in, in whatever league they're playing in. But there's nothing behind them. The guys behind 'em, don't push 'em, don't challenge 'em. They know, oh, we're never gonna play. they don't, they kind of just feel like they're along for the ride and, those teams will fizzle. They'll get, pushed and they won't know. They won't know what to do. So, we spend a lot of time, um, different, different points throughout the season, but also just a lot of the little things we do where we make sure that everybody is, spotlighted. That everybody has value that, you know, we we're shouting out guys for things they're doing outside of the team. Um, "I coach at a pretty small school where, the guys have the opportunity to participate in a lot, you know, that they're doing other sports. They're in, they're on, like the robotics team, they're in like the technical theater behind the scene. They're acting in the musical, they're, playing instruments. And so we highlight a lot of the other things guys do. Um, We do a, uh, a series of interviews where guys have to like, interview and, and present to teammate to the team, and they'll find some fun ways to do that. Like, you know, make it a game show or a guessing game or stuff like that. And, you know, everything we're doing, we're doing with everybody and "I think it, um, you know, it pays off. But that guy, you know, even down to like, the guys want to go to practice every day because they know they're gonna have a good time. They know they're known, they know they are appreciated and valued and you know, that, that sort of, That's creating that sort of atmosphere is just so beneficial to the team.

Luke: 12:01

Yeah, so essentially what I'm hearing from you, and it's a floss, "I believe in it as well. Use an example. Hey, someone throws the ball in the net better than you. We have to be able to separate the who from the what, like who we are versus what we do. And "I think kids today, Wrigley struggle with that because we do, when "I say we, "I mean society as a whole puts such an emphasis on a skillset on the on the field who scores the most goals, the most touchdowns hits the most home runs. These are the people that these young people are watching get celebrated. And you mentioned about the importance of the second. "I always work from the mindset of when you need your starters the most is when you're gonna be left with your second and third string guys, right? So you better be developing them too, because they're the ones that are going to ultimate decide. How many wins you have on, on that year. And it's good that you are focusing on that second string. And "I do agree with you when you have everyone bought in. It ultimately leads to more team achievement, right? If everybody's out there pursuing their own personal best, the team will achieve more. So how do you motivate, cuz this is something that "I struggle with. How do you motivate, how do you. The kid that at the beginning of the year is buried on the depth chart, how do you keep him motivated to keep pursuing his best, which is ultimately gonna lead to fulfillment for the team and for him as an individual as well.

Drew: 13:30

number one. my staff and "I, focus on, on the constant intertwining of, hard work with fun that we, we don't think this, it's like, okay, this is the fun part of practice, but then, okay, now like, push that aside guys. Now it's time for the hard work part. Like you can and should be able to do both all the time, which means you're, getting the satisfaction of putting in the hard work while you're also enjoying the stuff, we do at practice. number two, we keep our communication with the guys and, and our, um, celebration of the guys focused on growth rather than. you know, if, if a guy has just a great, you know, he has a, he has a six goal for assist game, like, everybody knows that it's, everybody saw it, it's measurable. Like you actually don't need to go out of your way to, call attention to that and celebrate it. but we have, we have our guys, uh, assess themselves throughout the season in a number of, in a number of categories. and then we do some, some measurable ones. Uh, we do a stick work, a stick skill test that "I got, from a friend at, uh, Ohio Wesleyan University. And we do that several times throughout the season. So the guys are, are tracking both their, their own. Academic growth in the sport as well as their, their physical, their skill growth in the sport. And we're always tracking that. and so guys are, focused on their own growth, but it's made public too. So the guys are, are cheering each other on, as they notice that improvement. And those are the things that we, that we are constantly paying attention to. We do a lot of, you know, measurables, a lot of counting, a lot of timing, throughout the year and, that means anybody who's involved. Knows I'm getting something out of this. I'm growing. Like "I, "I might not be getting a lot of playing time. "I might not be getting a lot of entries in the stat book, but my experience as part of this team is a, a beneficial growth experience. And that's gonna keep me coming back from day to day. Even if "I "I know I'm not gonna get a lot of playing time, or even if I'm, you know, tired and sore and beat up from something, this is something that's good for me. And then you, you put that all together and you give guys that experience of, of, in encouraging growth in one another and just the "I importance of that on a team. Um, that everybody's bringing something different. Everybody's playing a different role. you know, but all, all the parts of that body work together. And they're all, they, they are all different parts, but they are all equally necess.

Luke: 16:00

Essentially, you're trying to teach your players skills, and you sent me a priority list of skills that you really want to teach your players and. "I really loved about those skills as none of them were directly related to lacrosse. They were more so related to life skills. Why is that a priority for you to teach life skills?

Drew: 16:21

That comes out of, of my own experience as a player. "I, "I mentioned before, "I, just "I just had a string of, of awesome coaches in, in my life as a lacrosse player. and yeah, yeah, "I "I learned plenty of skills and, and strategies and, and tricks of the trade from those guys along the way. But, You know, one of, one of the experiences "I "I like to talk about is that when "I went to, when "I went to college, um, you know, "I went to a public high school. it was a, a Midwestern public high school, which is not, where you expect to get lacrosse players from. and "I "I went to college and "I was with a lot of, a lot of guys who went to some big name East Coast private schools. And, I found that. the college experience was easy. it was completely manageable. Um, and "I saw a lot of guys have a lot of trouble because they couldn't discipline themselves to do the studying. They couldn't get themselves out of bed in the morning for a 9:00 AM class. and it helped me recognize how much "I had learned. Through lacrosse, like if, if you're gonna be better, it's not just for an hour and a half, two hours of practice, five, six days a week for a few months of the year. you have to take yourself out to the wall. You gotta get yourself in the weight room. you have to. Keep working. Even, even when it's rough. You have to be able to balance your time. How, how am "I gonna, you know, be the best lacrosse player I'm gonna be, but still, you know, make my grades and, you know, take, AP tests and do college applications and, So much "I, "I, "I, even today as, as a teacher, if I'm "I wearing multiple hats, I'm, I'm still a student myself and I'm teaching a class and I'm coaching the lacrosse team, there's, there's times "I just sit there and think, "I don't know that "I would be able to accomplish and, and organize all this if it weren't for everything "I had learned through being a student athlete. it's a passion to pass that on. to other kids, and it's, it's so rewarding when you, when they come back and they tell you that, you know, those lessons paid off and that they're running their lives pretty successfully and they're able to apply a lot of the lessons that they learned through sport. A lot of the, the grit and the perseverance, the time management, you know, and hopefully too through it all that they're remaining, focused on others even before the.

Luke: 18:41

Yeah, we share a very similar passion and "I use those moments when the student athlete comes back and they tell you, Hey, "I wanted to, quite frankly, "I wanted to quit or maybe punch you in the face, coach Merton's. But now that I'm out in the real world, Now it all makes sense. Now "I, understand why you had us always wear a certain dress code at practice. Now "I, understand why you did all of these little steps that "I thought you were just kind of making life more difficult. But really what you alluded to, what you witnessed in college as well, coach is really what we're doing as coaches is making life. more manageable for them. We are preparing them more for the real world. And there's two skill sets that "I really wanna focus on that "I think kids today really need the most work, and that is grit and self-motivation. So let's start with grit. What are you doing to develop grit? What are you doing to. Your players understand that important part of life. A big part of life is being comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Drew: 19:46

Mm-hmm. Yeah. We talk, we talk a lot about comfort. Comfort is a big thing where "I "I tell them There is this, there is an implicit and sometimes explicit message being conveyed to them. that the end goal of life is comfort and that everything you work towards is so you can finally be comfortable. And I, tell them guys that that is a, it's a fallacy, first of all. It, it can't possibly come true. And second of all that doesn't serve much purpose. You know, "I, I'm not gonna guarantee your comfort here on this team. Cause life is not gonna promise you comfort. That that should not be what you're working towards. You're working towards it better. a better world, making life better for all the people you're gonna come in contact with. Okay? And that, that is an athema to your, comfort and put that out there. we also put, put a lot of emphasis on, being a man of your word. and "I, "I, think a lot of the grit comes, comes out of that, like "I. If we say we're gonna practice at a certain. Or, you know, we're gonna do this this way, or this, this is due, you have to finish this. But you know, we're, we're gonna do this test this day. You have to read this chapter of this book by this day. Just to not, not bend on that stuff. "I think there's, there's the, they'll get that, that bending in other places, it's okay. But, you know, "I tell 'em and "I have guys come back, uh, and tell 'em too. Like, "I, I've never in what now? 17 years as a. I've never had somebody come back and thank me for going easy on them. It, it has not happened once. And I've had plenty of times where people have come back like, you said, and said, Hey, "I, "I, get it now. And that was really valuable. And "I, I'm glad you, you stuck to your word and you held us to that standard. And you know, if we start on time, we end on time. We get these certain, things done. You know, "I might make you get up early in the morning for it, but. just them, seeing that model that like, no, you're gonna be held to it. and the benefit in that and just dismissing from their mind the idea of like, maybe there's a way out or around or, that way "I think they just, the biggest thing is, and this is in the classroom too, when you challenge kids, they certainly may. Not like it. they may even resist or vocalize their displeasure or even their disbelief in being able to meet the challenge. But it's remarkable how much they actually are able to, when you just say, no, "I have, "I have thought this through. I'm experienced at what I'm doing. "I believe you can do this and I'm not going to bend on. And they wind up doing it. And, and the, the look on their face that you can tell, they feel like they're 10 feet tall. And "I didn't think "I could do this and "I did it. I was so scared about this semester exam and. "I. "I did it. You know, "I "I got a good grade on it. You know, "I didn't think "I was ever gonna gonna hit the mark for how many, um, you know, if "I was gonna be able to get all, all 900 of my, of my wall ball, catches in, 30 minutes and "I did it, and there's no, no amount of talk from me or from one of the coaches can replace the feeling of them accomplishing something. So when you, when you hold them to it, they get the experience of, yes, "I can. and it feels awesome, and then it kind of snowballs from.

Luke: 23:06

what "I have come to learn. It's about the framing of it all. Is it rules or is it standards? Because if it's rules, you're going to have some pushback. From teenage kids. It's just the nature of where they're at in their life. If it's standards and you could help them to see the larger picture, and you hold them to those standards, which isn't happening a lot in today's world, and you could be that one person to hold them to that standard regardless. "I have found that they're going to most likely meet and exceed the standard. But it's our job as coaches to see. What they can become because for whatever reason, you don't always see that, right? You don't always see what you can become. You might see where you're at at that moment, but not who you will eventually become. So that's that, that standards piece, it's not about. And now "I, I've evolved into role the Dean of Students, which has been interesting for me because again, is it, why are we doing this? Is it about a punitive decision or is it about a decision of growth? Because if it's punit, We got it. Check the box. But if it's about growth, does this really make sense? Kind of like we're gonna talk about your dress code. Like is the dress code about Hey, haha, "I got you, you did not file the dress code. Or is it about the growth piece? And And that's really important for us as coaches and teachers and leaders in general to be very intentional. About that why behind it. So since "I brought it up, let's talk about that. That dress code piece that I was laughing as you sent me some of the info on it, cuz "I "I could imagine the look on some of your players' faces. Like what do you mean? That "I have to actually foul the dress code when "I see their peers that aren't involved in the cross, that get to wear whatever they wanna wear, whatever the standards of your school may be. So why do you feel that it was important to institute a dress code with your.

Drew: 25:01

Uh, number one, well, "I, you know, some of it is just a little bit of. Old, old school in it, "I, I'm sure. but one of the things we, talk about a lot that's in like our, our mission and vision statement is that both within our school and, and in the community, we want to be known, as a first class organization. we want, people to understand. That is a group of young men who, who do it the right way. You know, cuz there's a lot of ways you can play a sport and a lot of 'em aren't the right way. and we want to, we want to demonstrate that we hold ourselves to standards. Like you were mentioning that we have some self-respect. Um, they don't often see me saying they can't wear sweatpants to school as self-respect, but, you know, that's my job as the grownup to say like, actually, Communicate, your job is, is a student athlete. That's the, that is the workplace you go to every day. and, uh, and we want you to be, want you to be seen like that. Um, it winds up setting them apart a little bit. and I'm just, I'm just very big on them. Like "I said, the, the self-respect, but also the "I. Know, we talk a lot, a lot, a lot about the idea of being a gentleman, simply the idea of like, making life better for people around you. it's about the easiest dress code you ever seen to follow. But like, for instance, one of the things, and this is, you know, testament to the age, one of, one of the few elements of it is that you, you should not have anything in your ears. I said, "I know you.

Luke: 26:25

a difficult one today.

Drew: 26:26

No, it is and and, and it surprises some of them. And "I just say, Hey, look, if you, if you go up to someone and you are communicating to them or they're communicating to you, and those things are "I, have no idea what's going on in your ear. Uh, on the one hand, if something is going on, the fact is you're probably not paying full attention to what's being communicated to you. But even if it's off, a lot of the, a lot of times they'll just say, oh, it's not on "I said, yeah, but you're still sending a message. The, the value of the conversa, your value of the conversation you're having, how much do you value the person you're, you're talking to? and honestly, it's another one of those things where "I, you, you mentioned it. If, if you communicate the standards and you give the why, you know, kids, kids want the why. They don't just want the what. You know, "I, "I need to know why "I should actually do this. Um, This is, this is our, our everyday dress code If "I, see you. "I. Just "I. Wanna make sure you're in line for years now consecutively the, the captains every year have on their own implemented game day dress codes. and most of the time that is a tie or a jacket or both. Um, it's, it's never like, you know, let's, let's wear our, our warmup sweats or something like that. and they take a lot of pride in that. They, they feel like a team. They see each other in the hallway, you know, kind of dressed up, looking a lot better than their peers. And tho those are the times where "I will have teachers from, from the high school, from the upper. "I, come find me and just say, oh, you know, you have those boys looking so good. "I "I. Wish all of our students, uh, would dress like that. They just, you know, they, they look so much more respectable and, and it actually affects their behavior in the class. And "I always tell 'em that is not me. "I did not do that. I have a, dress code that they have to adhere to just every day of school. But this game day stuff where they, they look extra nice. This is about them deciding. we respect ourselves. we value our, our unity as a team. We want to communicate certain things about ourselves. this is a special day, and it's, it's for all of, you know, it's not like just the starters are doing that, or, or just the attack is doing that. You know, this is everybody. So, so that, that little freshman who's playing lacrosse for the first time in his life, He's walking around in a, in a jacket and tie and, you know, seniors are, shaking his hand in the hallway and, you know, he's, he's a big man on campus all of a sudden. And it goes back to what we were saying about how important standards are, you know, cuz the standards apply to everybody. So it's not, you know, there's no standards for the starters and, and standards for the, for the rookies or the second strain or the third string. You know, every, everybody gets held to 'em. So everybody knows how much value.

Luke: 29:02

In addition to holding your players to a higher standard, the dress code, you also. Have them read a book each year and "I have talked to other coaches that do this. "I think it's a great concept. I'm an English teacher. I love to read. It's a skillset that kids just for whatever reason, are not finding value in anymore. It's probably just because of the growth of YouTube and TikTok. They wanna be consumers of information. Now, just "I should say passive consumers.

Drew: 29:28

Quick.

Luke: 29:30

Yeah. So what do you do to pick the book? Do you get input from your coaches? Do you have the players pick it each year? Do you read something and you're the one that picks it? So take me through first that beginning piece of what is the book of the year.

Drew: 29:43

Choosing it. Uh, it, it can come from just about anywhere. There, there have been books that, that "I have read and said. Boy, we would get a lot out of this as a team if we all did this. I've had assistant coaches say, Hey, "I, just "I, just had a Fred recommend this book. And "I "I read it and "I think it's awesome. Um, I've had other coaches, "I respect and, uh, in lacrosse, like just, uh, last year we read this book called Mind Jim, and there's a, a lacrosse coach, very good friend of mine, uh, who "I, who just respect so much and he, could not stop talking about this. Uh, and "I said, okay, we, we gotta read this. and he was a, he and actually "I got several, several other, sports personalities were also willing to read it and, and make themselves available to the team, some in person and, and, and some via Zoom to like, discuss it, discuss it section by section and, and really, uh, pick it apart. And that, uh, that really got 'em, that really got 'em into it. When, when we know they're gonna hear about it a lot, we're gonna discuss it a lot. We've had years where, you know, we assign different chapters maybe to, to a pair of players and they actually have to do a, a presentation on it. And, and that really, really helps it stick. And then we can, we can reference it a lot throughout the season. and that really helps convey its importance too. It's not just a a box to check, but like, this is something we're actually gonna talk about a lot guys. It's gonna be helpful for.

Luke: 31:03

and you do that preseason during the season, meaning that reading it, I'm sure "I know you referenced it throughout the season, but are you actually taking time away from the practice field and and having these book discussions, or is this something that you do leading up to the season and during the season it's just reinforced?

Drew: 31:19

we, uh, we've done it both ways and it, and it kind of depends on the book. Um, it might depend on the group that, you know, if, if it's a very, uh, veteran heavy group and they're used to it. there's a better chance that I'll be like, get this done by day one of the season, and then we're gonna do a bunch of stuff with it throughout the year. Uh, if "I have a lot of newer players who, who, or, or guys who are playing lacrosse for the first time, um, they weren't even around for the season before or even some of the, the off season stuff, we might break it down and. you gotta finish this part by this date, this part by this date. And then, yeah, we will, we will take time during the week. I'll usually, you know, this is the teacher and me coming out. I'll usually give them, give them a quiz. nothing ex extensive, but just, it's really, it's accountability. It's, did you read it? You know, if you read it, you'll have no problem with this. Um, but if you didn't, you can't fake it. You're gonna have to face up to like, you know, "I let myself and my teammates down. By not reading it then. and then, you know, we had some, like "I said, we had those, those sort of discussion sessions last year, uh, at four points during the season. Uh, or we might have a couple guys just get up like before or after a practice or during a film session and just kind of present on part of it and, and like, you know, what they took away, what we should all be, we've taken away from it. But, um, you know, it's, it's important enough that we will, we will absolutely devote time to it whenever it's gonna help.

Luke: 32:38

Love that accountability piece. You said the teacher in you and you give them a test. "I think it's really important. And again, it's not about a "I got you mentality. It's a, I asked you to do this. I'm gonna hold you accountable. To this standard. So with that, let's segue to your accountability teams that you have now spawned into that came out of your competition week. So tell me about your accountability teams. what it looks like and what you are doing with it.

Drew: 33:04

Sure. So, um, I'll be brief about the start. my current school, has a two week spring break, which, which "I is a nightmare as a lacrosse coach, like you, you've just gotten into your season. you've got the, the skids greased. You're, you're starting to operate as a machine and then it's like two weeks that everybody just goes away and, and does whatever. And you know, it's gonna be a hard restart basically when you get back, Uh, my high school, we only had a one week spring break and our coach never let us take it anyway. we had work to do, so we were, you know, "I have never been on a spring break. so what what "I have always done is, um, parents are gonna want some vacation time. So we, the first week we say, go ahead, take your spring break. And then the second week we come back and we spend the whole week together. We call it competition week. And, and so from the beginning we. We have had drafts of like little teams of four, and then throughout the week, uh, since we have the, the full days, uh, in addition to regular practices, we just line up a whole bunch of competitive activities. Everything from like, you know, we've had, we've had trivia nights to like miniature golf to, you know, and everything in between basketball tournaments and just to be competitive, competitive, competitive. And. It's another, it's another thing that really emphasizes the value of everybody. Cuz when you only have a team of four and we have rules about like, you know, you can only have X number of seniors, or you have to have at least one brand new player, you know, and you only got four of you. It's everybody's gonna be really important. And those guys are, you know, the freshman, not only are they competing in a basketball tournament with the upperclassmen, then, you know, it's spring break, so there's nothing going on. So then, they're invited. Okay, let's go out to lunch on, on lunch break. And they're, you know, eating with the upperclassmen. And that's one of those things that has generated, A lot of positive feedback over the years just for, for what it means for everybody. People still ask about it. They remember like the goofy team name they gave themselves and stuff. And so "I was, um, "I was listening to, some of the lacrosse coaching staff at, Jacksonville a year or two ago, and they were talking about this concept of accountability teams that they, that they use. And so what we've done is kind of roll this into our competition week. So rather than waiting for spring break to draft these little teams, um, we, we draft them at the start of the year and they'll, they'll be your teams when we get to competition week. But, in between you have this little group. That, you're kind of responsible for, um, that we, we want you checking in on that, that group. Um, we want you encouraging them, you know, knowing a little bit more, more about 'em. and, uh, you know, you talk about things, punitive is easy. But what we have is, is that the praise and and consequences for decisions are going to affect everybody on that accountability team. You know, if somebody does not have their practice uniform, whatever consequences are, are decided upon extend to that. That team, that little group. Uh, so they're invested in each other and it, it means, you know, it's a, it's a small number of people. It's "I, "I can, "I can keep them all in mind. but there's just that heightened level of, okay, your, your decisions affect me and my decisions affect you. And "I need to think about that. "I need to think about more than just myself. "I can't just say, oh, that, that's his problem, you know? Oh, too bad for him. he's out dress code at school. or, you know, something, something happened within a practice. Well, you know, he, that's a him problem. He's gonna deal with that. No, it's, it's gonna affect the rest of that team. So, it creates a lot of, a lot of bonding. It actually extends a little bit of. The impetus to, to be holding yourselves to standards and, and it fo it, it gives extra emphasis to our, to our other focus that we like to look at.

Luke: 36:45

So good. the accountability teams, the book, the Standards of Dress Code "I knew coming into this episode that we're all going to leave better leaders and better coaches. You're doing so many great things with these kids, and you're definitely preparing them for the real world. Uh, so "I was really excited to get to dive into these topics with you. and you know, there there's one last thing "I need to talk to you about, and it's this little simple thing that you do that "I think is very, and it comes from posting practice plans. And when "I, when "I, again, when "I read this, "I kind of chuckled to myself because it's something that my staff and "I have debated because we have noticed. So we have a very segment, we have a segment timer, "I. Don't know if you're familiar with those, but we have a very segmented practice.

Drew: 37:30

Mm.

Luke: 37:30

So the first question we're always hit with, and really for those of us in the building we get hit with throughout the day, is how many segments are we. Hey, are we doing this segment, the players just want to know. And it's funny because as a staff we have kind of gone back and forth. Do we let 'em know? Do we not let 'em know? Do we share with them the practice plans? Do we not want them to see it? Is there something on there we don't want them to see? And. What you do is really simple, yet "I think very powerful, and that is that you post your practice plans on your classroom door. So take us through why you do that and the impact that little gesture is having.

Drew: 38:11

So this, this is something "I got from my college coach. You know, there's nothing new under the sun. "I just, um, so his office was in the athletic. Building and that was, you know, down the hill and across the street. Like you had to put in an effort to go and see it. and we were required to do that every day. and a lot of my reasons are the same as his, that it, it communicates, first of all, you're putting an effort to go see it, which says "I think what we're doing is important. but also "I "I can begin to get focus. on what I'll have to do that day of practice, what's gonna be expected of me. Um, "I know what drills we're gonna do, "I know which color practice Jersey "I have to wear, and that just eliminates a lot of wasted time in. As I've gone further and further in my coaching career, I've become a, a bigger and b, bigger believer in in efficiency, um, in, in quality over quantity when it comes to practice time. If we can zip from drill to drill at top speed and we always know what's coming, we can get a lot more. Uh, we can improve a lot more. But the other thing about it, and, and this is from, from my coach and for my kids now, is that it, it brings us into physical proximity every day. You know, my kids are all over in the upper school. Uh, I'm teaching in the middle school. It's, it's kind of, you have to go a little outta your way, but it's kind of in between, where they eat lunch and, and where they have classes. So, you know, it's, they have to detour a little bit. but it, uh, it brings 'em in my building, it brings 'em right to my door and, you know, it gives me an opportunity to, communicate with them just to kind of gauge their, their mood that day. if maybe there was something that they might have wanted to talk to me about, but you know, they didn't wanna bother me or, you know, they didn't want to go outta their way. Well now there they are standing at my. so makes it a lot easier if they want to do that. Um, they see some of their old teachers, you know, puts a smile on a lot of people's faces. my seventh graders see 'em every day and begin to look up to them. You know, there's these, there are these young men coming in every day and, you know, some of them, they knew they were students in this room and now, you know, they're these, they're these. Big, strong boys and they say hi to me and "I say hi to them. And we, we clearly have a, have a relationship. You know, sometimes they have important things to talk about. And "I tell 'em, they can always interrupt my class if it's something important. Absolutely. You know, you guys are a high priority to me. and so you, you sort of roll all of that together and it's just, uh, you know, it's, it's, it becomes habit. Um, it's become a habit for the team over the years. It becomes habit for the new guys throughout the season. Um, and it just, uh, It's a unique characteristic of what we do, "I guess. but uh, you know, it means something to us. And I'll "I will also say "I "I. Throw some, some fun stuff on the practice plan every day. oftentimes it'll be like a, you know, a motivational quote or sometimes I'll have like a trivia question. or I'll, preview a trivia topic that I'm gonna quiz them with when we start practice. And, you know, they'll nominate somebody. To be their answer guy. They think they can, they can get it right. You know, they've got something to look forward to. They'll come to practice and say like, Hey, coach, that, that quote was awesome. We're like, oh, hey, "I saw that geography was the topic of trivia today. Like, "I want, "I, wanna do this? I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it right. And, uh, you know, just, uh, something else that brings us together.

Luke: 41:26

Yeah, "I, thank you for sharing that information. And "I love the efficiency piece cuz "I like you. I'd rather have a shorter, efficient practice buzzing around station to station kids know where they're supposed to be and why they're supposed to be there. It helps for a, a much better growth session in practice. But the one thing "I did not think about is that personal connection throughout the day. Now, "I do have those moments with my players. I'm in the building, but "I love that piece of come to my door and that intentionality behind it of you could just say to a coach, how, or to your player, how's your, how's your day going? Hey, what's going on? Have these little individual moments that maybe only last 60 seconds, but you'll come to find out five years later that that's 60. Had an impact on that student athlete that they'll remember for the rest of their life. So thank you so much for sharing that and for sharing all this information. "I told you I'm an English teacher at heart, so I'd be remiss to not end with this. Please share with me and our listeners some great book titles that you have done with your team that you think would bring value to their teams as well.

Drew: 42:32

So the one, um, the one we did last year, "I "I mentioned before, is called Mind Gym, which is, is really about the vital importance of the, the mental aspect of the game. and, and this lacrosse coach who, who recommended to me, who's one of the, one of the best players that I've ever gotten to know, personally, he loves it and talks about how he, he could not wait to talk to the kids about it. And we had, we had several guests in, uh, with different sporting ba We had a, a division "I football player who became a coach, do one session. We had, a, uh, an Olympic, uh, distance runner talked, and, and it was really cool for the kids to see that we had very different ages of these athletes and former athletes in very different sports and experiences. But all of them were excited and passionate to talk about the importance of the mental. aspect of sport and attitude and, and focus. And so the, the kids got a, a ton out of that. Um, a few years ago we read a book called Legacy, which is about the, New Zealand, uh, national rugby team. and about how really it's about a lot of the little things. they have a policy that, that we have. And "I, it was so cool to see a team that successful and that, and that big time, does the same thing. But, uh, you know, we, we, and they are intentioned about leaving places better than we found them. they, in the, in the book in Legacy, they talk about like, What after they have, cleaned up their, stuff out of the locker room after, after being the visiting team. Like, they, they even sweep it, they sweep the sheds. They, they say "I was on our shirts one year. You know, they wanna make sure that everything is, even better than they found it. And that sort of respect for others. Um, and for the game and for self. this year we are, we're reading one called Be Where Your Feet Are, which is recommended by one of my, my former assistants. And it's really just about being, present in the moment and not being distracted and about how, you know, you can, get the most out of things, but also give the most in things if you are, wholly present, where your feet are.

Luke: 44:40

Thank you so much for suggestions and to our listeners, I'll definitely link those in to show notes. As "I referenced a few minutes ago, "I was really excited about this episode. "I knew "I was gonna leave a better. So thank you so much for taking us inside your vision, your purpose, your goals, and your program, because "I have no doubt that everyone listened to this, has found a ton of value and will be a better leader and better coach because of that. So a lot of luck to you in this upcoming season. "I. Hope you have good weather in the spring. It's, you never know. It's usually not good every, every time, uh, spring season rolls around, I'm like, man, I'm glad I'm not a spring season coach. It makes the fall look pretty rewarding. But best of luck to you. Look forward to following your success this upcoming season and to all of our listeners, feel free to reach out to Coach Bogan. As you could tell, he is a great resource for all of us. Best of luck coach.

Drew: 45:30

Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for doing this, "I. Appreciate it.