Leaving HS Feeling Good About Yourself w/Tim Trendel

Luke: 0:00

This is episode 37 of The "I" in Win podcast

Tim: 0:03

If you've got to narrow it down to one thing, I think it's probably that they leave high schools. They should feel good about themselves and know that they have potential to do good. I mean, honestly, what it comes down to,

Luke: 0:25

Thanks for tuning in and supporting The "I" in Win. Believe it or not, it's been six months since launching a podcast. And I can't believe I'm saying this. We're approaching 10,000. Downloads. Full disclosure. When I started this podcast, I entered with zero expectations. Just decided to jump into the deep end. But here I am six months later. My professional network has grown exponentially, I have a much clearer understanding of what true leadership looks like. And most importantly, I'm more inspired than ever to be that positive impact in someone else's life. And I sincerely hope The "I" in Win has had a similar impact on you as well. Today's episode features Tim Trendal assistant principal at St. Patrick high school in Chicago. Tim. And I were classmates at St. Pats. And this is a conversation was actually recorded months ago before Tim started his role as AP. And before I decided to join him at our Alma mater. Tim has over 20 years experience in education, serving as a teacher, baseball and basketball coach, 11 of which were head boys' basketball coach. And it's abbreviated episode, we'll discuss why Tim entered the profession, his decision and transition into school administration. The struggle of today's classroom teacher, why teachers need to prioritize personal connections with students and how this ultimately ties in to the larger vision of education. Hoping joy episode 37 of The "I" in Win podcast tim trend to welcome to the show. And I want to start with your why, and I think that's important to help us understand a little bit about who you are. So why did you decide to get into education?

Tim: 1:55

well, um, that's a great question. I think, you know, everyone's got to kind of understand where you're coming from in that point. And I think I was blessed, through really. Oh, gosh, probably 30 years of Catholic school education, minimally my, I guess, without having put it all together, um, just with some really great teachers and, just some great perspectives on, the world and I'll look on the world and, you know, and then I had some good coaches and mentors, you know, in terms of coaching and teaching them maybe want to kind of continue to keep going with it. So, you know, I, I come across. Like I said, a lot of great people in this profession and, those relationships that I think has kinda made me want to do what I want to do. It's developing those relationships. It's fostering those relationships. It's, being able to kind of take those relationships and help other people through those relationships. So I said, I've been blessed with, you know, the grammar school and high school, and then college, you know, work in some grades or be part of some, some great schools and maybe want to come back to, contribute to those great places.

Luke: 2:52

And if it mentioned over 30 years of Catholic education, why have you chosen that path? Despite opportunities to make more money teaching in the public school system?

Tim: 3:03

um, I think a lot of it has to do is the relationships. I think a lot of the schools that I've been a part of have been like a family atmosphere, whether it was, St pats then I went to a small college Dominican, and then, you know, when I came back and taught at St Pat's or Providence or Marist, there's just definitely. You're not, you're not a person they're just punching a time clock. You're used to me. You feel like, people appreciate you. They value you and you develop kind of, you know, a relationship that goes beyond just, the classroom or the court or the field or anything like that. And you, you, you get the sense that people really care about you. I think, you know, It probably happens in the other sectors too, but that was just my experience with the, with the Catholic schools over 30 years. And, you know, that's something I really want to be a part of is that feeling, you know, kind of, you know, a second family outside of my family back at home,

Luke: 3:51

And prior to your current role in school administration at St. Pats, you worked up the ladder, uh, you were a classroom teacher, assistant basketball coach, and you become a head basketball coach, which you've were very successful at for many years. Why did you transition to this new leadership role, of school administer?

Tim: 4:08

well, I think it was a lot of different, things, you know, I think as I got to the point I had been, you know, I think it was 11 years as a head coach. Um, you know, and then 20 years in coaching in January. it was time for a new change, a new challenge, I should say. You know, I just kind of something different were, you know, always at the back of my mind, I've had this, you know, boy, I'd like to try my hand and maybe being a principal down the line, you know, it's a different way, you know, you get your own team as a, as an administrator now. So you're not necessarily my team's not the kids anymore. It's, you know, you're, you're dealing with the adults. And so I think that's kind of the challenge that it presented itself that kind of jumped out and said, you know, a chance to maybe kind of help, Being a teacher and a coach myself, some of the frustrations of, I know, I know firsthand some of the frustrations as a teacher and a coach, and I thought maybe you get on the other side of that desk and maybe I can help those people with their frustrations and things like that. And you know, obviously the other things, you know, there's a lot of the pressures in society get to you as you're in the coaching business, terms of, winning And then you get the parent complaints. If you're not winning or, you know, their kid's not playing enough. And whatnot. So I think some of that kind of helped contributed to my desire for a change.

Luke: 5:12

And you touched upon frustrations of teachers, which I want you to hold that thought. Cause we are going to come back to it. I want to first ask you looking broadly at education and from your experiences. Why do people generally get into the field of becoming a teacher or a coach?

Tim: 5:28

well, I think it's because, they want to help kids, you know that at least I hope that's why they do. Okay. Um, you know, I think, And I think it's, most people do get into it. With the thought that they're going to help kids, but I think then eventually they may be burn out or they kind of change their, their focus on that. But I think the initial thing of, of, of coach and teach is, is to help kids and cause again, I think, you know, as I said earlier, you want to give back and give the same experience that you had when you were growing up in school.

Luke: 5:53

And get into that frustration piece. from my perspective, I feel like teachers and coaches are feeling undervalued through feeling very overburdened with initiatives, state standards, overbearing parents, and it's causing a shortage of qualified teachers and coaches, people are either getting out of the business or not getting into it in the first place. Would you say that that's a fair assessment?

Tim: 6:18

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, just knowing a little bit. I used to just a few short months being on the, up this other side and knows we've had to hire some teachers and you know, are looking to hire coaches here where we're at. And, it's, it's been a challenge, you know, it's, it's been, it's been a challenge. The Yulin teachers we hired this year, but we're still looking for some coaches in certain areas and things like that. So I think obviously the pandemic didn't help either. I think that may, teach in cogent and everything that much more difficult. So there's definitely a need for, young people or people in general, just to get, get in the business And give back to kids.

Luke: 6:50

And I agree with you that people get into the business initially, because they want to give back. They want to help people. It's, it's more important than teaching math. They truly want to make an impact on someone's life. So here's the tough part. How do we balance. These performance based outcomes in schools, standardized testing college placement in athletics as well, wins and losses scholarships for kids, how we balance those performance based outcomes with the true initiative of why we begin teaching coaching in the first place, which is changing young people's lives.

Tim: 7:26

I think as you grow as a teacher, as a coach, I think ultimately I think what you begin to understand is, you know, all that other stuff, whether it be a test score or a win or something like that, you achieve those a lot easier if you, if you have a relationship with kids and, and you build the experience with kids and, and you just get to know kids first and foremost, I think eventually you learned that at least I did as a teacher and coach, you know, Coaching. And it was all about winning and, and whatnot. And, you know, then kind of, I think when I kind of realized I had an epiphany, that, boy, there's gotta be more to this. And I think, you know, it got a lot better for me. So I, it was just kind of, I think one, you got to kind of understand it. I said, you'll realize that once as you with, hopefully over time, you don't experience you that, you know, all that stuff. And the being the byproducts of, developing those relationships, but I mean, there's just so much pressure put on people today, you know, to kinda get this kid into this college based on, you know, cause of their grades or, you know, they can throw a football or shoot a basketball and you know, it's just, it takes away from the focus. But I think at the ultimate, the end game is I used a nice, and then what I learned was when you start putting kids first and you start putting relationships first, I think then that's all that other stuff gets easier. You know, you become more sucks, quote unquote, in society's eyes, more successful, you know, with the wins and losses or college placements, you know, and I think that's what I said. I had to thank God probably about halfway through my coaching career. I kind of finally realized that

Luke: 8:48

And why is that? Cause it seems like a contradiction. You're saying that those that focus more on the relationship on the kids ultimately end up having better outcomes anyway. So how would you explain that the relationship piece ultimately helps you to be. More successful with the outcomes anyway.

Tim: 9:07

Yep. Well, I, it, VR is kind of fine. You know, we're talking like this not to, cause I actually just sent a, YouTube video, Ted talk out to our staff here today that talked about this very thing. You know, it, I think it's a, kid's desire to be heard. It's a kid, his kids desire to be listened to. And I think we do that as teachers and coaches, and then those are, the kids are going to be willing to run through the brick wall. Those will be the kids that are going to be willing to learn, learn, and take your class a little bit more seriously than the kids that you don't get to know. if you don't get to know a kid and develop a relationship with them, they're just like us as adults. They want to know the why probably more so than us as adults. They want to know the why. The things they want to get, down to, the more kind of deeper level. And it says opposed to the surface things. If I said, I you'll see them run through brick walls for you when you develop those relationships, when you hear them out and when you generally gen genuinely listened to them, as I said, there'll be willing to do anything for you. Now your test scores are going to improve your wins are going to improve, because they're going to want to go that extra mile for you. And the only way they're going to go the extra mile for you is if you develop a relationship with them,

Luke: 10:10

And how do you do that? So if you're a teacher, you have, a hundred lunches around number, you have 150 students that you see daily. If you're a coach, you have, 50 to 150 athletes that you're dealing with daily. How do you develop those? Individually relationships, despite only being one of you in so many.

Tim: 10:30

That's a great question. Um, and I think you gotta be creative. all your time of the day, you know, I'm just taking, from a coaches standpoint on the basketball court, as your kids are stretching or they're getting loose and you know, they're, they're doing, maybe they're doing their form shooting. we had what I called one minute meetings, you know, we just went around and I checked in with each kid every day, how you're doing, what's going on? how's your day go, you know, everything good at home, So make the most of that time where you, I said you have a little bit of downtime and you can get to each kid or they're stretching, they're stretching lines and you can just kind of get up and down the line and give them a smile, you know, fist bump, whatever. And it just kind of check in with them, you know, as a teacher, you know, and we've talked to, I've been talking to our teachers, allow with, green kids in the hallway, getting, getting on their level a little bit and, you know, Fist bump in the hallway. you ask somebody to stay after class, maybe, you know, if you notice kids kind of out of sorts that day, you know, you ask a kid to stay after class or just kind of ask them what's going on or, know, all of a sudden you get a kid that's going. crazy about a dress code rule or something like that, and kind of giving you attitude. I mean, most of the time, it's not, he's not upset with you, or he's not upset with the rule. There's an underlying costs to that. And it all takes some times. It's just, you see that kid like that, pull them aside and say, Hey, I hear you're frustrated, but I hear there's something else that's gotta be deeper than, tucking your shirt in or something like that. And you know, a lot of times they'll just unload them and tell you everything that they're going through. You kind of see things in a different light. So I think it's just kind of, you know, making the most of your time, you know, when you get those little one-on-one situations with kids and phone calls home always help, and I think sometimes you don't have the phone calls necessarily where kids, struggling or doing bad, although you need those, but those positive phone calls home. Letting those parents know when the kids know that you see them catching them doing the right things right. And I said, I think that goes a long way too.

Luke: 12:11

Well, I love a point you made there, and that is that there's always a reason for the behavior. One of my mentors who to this day just has a profound impact on me. That's one thing he always stressed. So I would be frustrated with a student's behavior or a player's behavior. And he would just tell me to take a breath. Remind me. There is a reason. That person is behaving the way that he or she is. And it's your job as the leader to figure out why and help that person deal with that situation. And if we take those times to truly know our kids and develop those relationships, one thing we're all going to really see is what's going on in today's classrooms and on the fields today. And that is our kids are more anxious. And the press then maybe ever than they have been before. And this was even prior to the pandemic, the pandemic was compounded that issue. So what are some tools that teachers and coaches can utilize to, first of all, be aware of this anxiousness and depression and address the needs of kids.

Tim: 13:11

Well, I think one of the biggest thing is you got to give them the forum to be able to kind of speak their minds a little bit. And can't do, I said unload a little bit, we had some great team talks, you know, amongst our basketball teams where we just kinda. You had a chance to let kids talk about things that are, of, of importance to them. we didn't talk basketball, you know what we kinda, you know, we called it the hot seat. it's a safe space and they were able to just fire questions at them. And, you know, all of a sudden, eventually some of it led to some kind of really deep conversations, you know, one day we had a conversation about, about race relations and stuff like that. again, the kids. got to feel safe that they can kind of open up to you as a, as a teacher in, in, in, in a coach, in, in amongst your team or in your classroom and whatnot. But I said, once you can kind of get in and let them, you know, Say what they're feeling. And then he said, and when they believed that you're genuinely listening to them, I think those are the two biggest powers you got. One is kind of allowed them to speak and obviously, yeah, there's gotta be boundaries in the conversation but let them know that what they're saying is safe and that you're going to respect what they're saying, and you're going to really kind of listen to what they're saying. I think that's kind of one of the biggest things. Giving them that forum letting them know that you're there for them, too many times, I think, you know, it was teachers and coaches, you know, we got a million things going on and we're ready to rush onto the next thing. And you know, we've got to get here for this meeting or you got this appointment or you get this practice or you gotta get to class and you know, you don't, I don't, I think the kids sometimes feel like we don't have time for them. but they got to know that. They're they're important to you, you know, we're going to spend some time if it means maybe you don't practice starts a little bit later or, you know what, I'm a held up, 30 seconds getting to class. I think those are just some of the biggest things you just kinda said being open and honest and having that relationship where they feel like they can kind of talk to you. and genuinely listening to speak, you know, really listen to listen to what they're saying and kind of help them solve their problems, I think are probably your two biggest too, you know, and be observant too. I think would be another thing is, I mean, you know, they may not always say it to, but you can sense when a kid's kind of off that day, through their body language. So, you know, you gotta cut also. believe what your eyes are telling you to. Yeah. You want to have your ears on guard too, but you know, if you see a kid, I said, I mean, all of a sudden he, he practices his butt off and all of a sudden today he's kind of not giving you, you know, again, there could be a million reasons as to why, but, you know, he's not giving you that same effort. I think you got to kind of be observant to it. Same thing in a classroom, you know, you get a kid who's bubbly and comes into class and always kind of answering your question, participates in the discussion. And next thing you know, they're kind of, you know, Solon and, uh, you know, so I think being observant is kind of another big thing.

Luke: 15:37

Here's what I'm hearing from you. Life skills, that that's an important thing that we need to practice. And we also need to allow our kids to practice in classrooms and in athletics. are those life skills? You've mentioned listening to listen rather than listening to talk, which I really liked that phrase. What are life skills that you think high school kids should be learning regardless. Catholic school, public school, just globally. What should they walk out of our high schools in our country, knowing from terms of license.

Tim: 16:06

I mean, I don't know if you've been on Twitter at all today. Um, but there's a big, you know, thread going on. You know, I, I'm a big on, you know, I've learned a lot on Twitter, whether it be coaching or education, but there's a big thing going on right now on Twitter. I guess there's a viral tick. Talk about, vandalizing school, property and stealing school property. I mean, which is, that's just appalling in itself, you know, that's what our society come to. We're using social media. To promote, you know, vandalizing in the schools and stealing in the schools. But I think respect is one of the biggest things. I mean, especially in today's world, it respect for, people of other races, you know, respect for people, who maybe don't look like us, who maybe don't act like us. You know, we think kids got it easy. I mean, we were living in some definitely, I think confusing times for, for kids, for all people, you know, I said, you want to start with race relations or, transgender issues that come up or, people from different faiths and stuff like that. And, you know, we all live on the same plan and we all share the same planet. And I think ultimately everybody's got that same goal. You know, that's what we done. Our teams. We never really had rules. We always had standards and values and, you know, respect was kind of always one of those things there that, you know, if you respect somebody, then you're on time. You know, if you respect somebody, you know, you're, you're, you're not going to make fun of them, or you're going to, you know, how you're going to deal with them and stuff like that. So, I think teaching people that, you know, respect in this world is just huge. Uh, the trust. being able to trust, other people and stuff like that. I said, I think that's what teams And classrooms should be able to teach, to teach us, you know, trust, you know, that trust in one, another trust in the system, you know, it just, I said, just being a good person, I think is kind of ultimately what it's coming down to is. And I did, I did. I sent in an email to our staff not too long ago. I mean, it's all great. The content that we're teaching all our kids, but at the end of the day, they're probably going to forget most of it, but the stuff they're going to remember out of these, exactly. These life skills that you're talking about, you know, Kenny, can we be respectful? Can we be responsible? can we be team players? I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things with, you know, It's society today, you know, it's become such a isolated individualized, you know, kind of thing with, technology and stuff like that. Um, you know, it's about, you know, I said being a team player, I mean, when you go work for the most part, well, I know a lot of people are working from home now, but when you go to work, you gotta be a member of a team and you gotta do your job and support other people doing their jobs. And, you know, it's just, it's so important for that, for them to those kids to kind of learn those types of things, at school and under teams.

Luke: 18:31

And you touched upon a subject that we don't want to really go down the rabbit hole of social media. But the reality is that is impacting our kids today. And that is a battle that teachers and coaches and parents are all fighting right now. So how do we allow teachers to freedom, to sacrifice curriculum time? To teach kids respect, to teach kids how to listen, to help kids understand what a reliable sources versus an unreliable source. Like tic-tac.

Tim: 19:04

I mean, I think it's teachers and educators, we've got to make that decision. They said priors about halfway through my coaching career. I just made the decision, you know what, and it used to be, you know, when I first started, it was everything you don't practice, you know, two and a half, three hours, you know, seven days a week. This gosh forbid I would ever give a practice time to do. Character building session, or to have a book discussion on it on a character building topic, or do something that really wasn't basketball related or, you know, baseball related ones. And I think it's just, I mean, as a society, we have to kind of come to grips and say, you know what, we're going to give up some of that instructional time or that practice time or that, you know, it's gotta be a choice that we made. Group to kind of be able to do as educators, as coaches, you know what, there's gonna be some things that, you know, a lot more kids are going to go on and be, you know, citizens obviously in, in, in our country and our world. And they are going to go be college basketball players or football players, or, go into the Ivy league or whatnot. So I think it's just comes down to, we gotta make a decision. Like I said, as educators that, you know, there's going to be some, you know, time put aside for this, you know, I didn't even think a lot of schools are starting to do that. You know, I know a couple of my coaching friends, you know, teach leadership classes at their schools. Um, you know, so obviously their school's kind of gotten behind that and gotten into that, kind of thinking and, and whatnot. And, you know, that's what I'm trying to push here. Hopefully we're going to add a leadership curriculum next year here where we're at. And I think it's just kind of. start developing it, all aspects of it. You know, the social, emotional piece of it has become a hot topic in education right now. But I mean, you can work in social, emotional learning, in just about any class math, science, social studies, and working those into our lessons, the social, emotional pieces of it. And I think we have to, as a schools and school, community and educators, we gotta make that decision.

Luke: 20:46

I know you're new to school administration. However, how do you think school administrators can help teachers and coaches to move forward with optimism despite all the outside noise and the divisiveness and negativity that we face? Right.

Tim: 21:02

it's so important to be supportive of your people, you know, let them know that you're there for them. You appreciate what they're doing. I mean, I think that's, you know, a big thing is, you know, Hey, I'm here for, if you need something, I'm going to be a resource I can help you out. You know, also appreciate all you're doing for our kids in our school and our teams and whatnot. And in your classes, um, you know, I think that's what teachers are looking for. Coaches are looking for. From administrators these days, I said, not having switched over just about, you know, four or five months ago to the other side. I said, I know that's what I was looking for. As a, as a, as a younger teacher, as a young coach, you know, it was just the support from my administration and just the appreciation that, you know what, Hey, maybe you lost a tough game, but we, we know you've, tried your best and your kids were ready and you did everything you could. And you just came up a little bit shorter, same thing, you know, maybe they didn't achieve well, You know, you had a class unit test and they didn't do as well, but we know you put your heart and soul into it. And we know that you're going to try and find ways to kind of correct. Maybe whatever issue you kind of came across is cause you care about your kids. So I said, I think the biggest thing on the administrative pieces and that's, you know, I said, because they look at as my team and you know, I'm a big believer in, when you talk leadership and if I get a chance to teach a class like that, it's servant leadership it's not the kind of top down I'm going to be a demanding leader. And so I'm here to serve you and how can I help you do your job? Because then if I'm helping them do their jobs better, our school's going to be better for it. So I think that's the biggest thing.

Luke: 22:24

I heard you referenced earlier that you're making citizens more than anything when, they're in your classroom. So how will you know that you and your teachers and your coaches are successfully making better people after four years of.

Tim: 22:40

I mean, well, I say I don't want, hopefully it's not even for, you know, you know, just by watching their interactions I mean, do the kids pick up their tables at the end? You know, the amount of kids that just leave, their trash at the table. Cause they think somebody else is going to pick it up for them. Uh, you know, and it just little things like that, even if it's not there, do they pick it up? You know how many times you get in argued? Well, that's not my. But then you get these other kids that come by and it, oh, it's not mine. Okay. I'll pick it up, you know, do you see them in the hallways, treat each other with respect and you know, you see somebody sitting then lunch from all by themselves. how about we invite them over to our table and then not let that kid feel. Alone or whatever. And, you know, so I think you can observe those, those types of. things, you know, as they're growing, through your school you know, if you're a good teacher, you're just not that kid's teacher for a year. You're that kid's teacher for life. And it goes back to that relationships piece, and they're going to come back to you five years from now, 10 years from now, you know, you see them at a reunion or something like that. And they're going to say, Hey, and boy, you know, I remember, you know, you taught me this and it's really, like I said, it's not about, you know, what you taught me about us history or something like that as you, you know? And I think those, you know, you'll see them become good, good, good, and young men and less in our case, young men and fathers and husbands and, you know, it's all those things you're going to observe down the line.

Luke: 23:52

Okay, so stars are aligned. Money is no object. What's the one thing, every kid should be able to take away from his or her high school experience. In your opinion.

Tim: 24:03

Hmm. Wow. That's, that's a, that's a good question. I mean, if you've got to narrow it down to one thing, I think it's probably that they leave high schools. They should feel good about themselves and know that they have potential to do good. I mean, honestly, what it comes down to, you know, they should walk, they shouldn't feel like I can't do this. I'm not good at math. I'm going to be a failure or they should be able to walk out of high school, senior and what my strength is, or I'm really good at. And I can go use that strength and go on change.

Luke: 24:30

Man love it. I know I put you on the hot seat with that question. That was a really tough one. And you didn't know what was coming. I love the response because it's so true. We, our job as educators is to make people discover who they are and then feel comfortable and good about who they are. And especially the years you're working on. Many come in that have no idea who they are. Right. So we have to allow them to be comfortable in that process and that journey help them along the way, encourage them along the way. And then hopefully they're leaving, walking out of that school with diploma in hand and proud of who they are and who they've become. So that's a great answer. And I appreciate you letting me put you on the spot you touched upon. Yeah. You touched upon books earlier. What are some good books on leadership that you could recommend to our list?

Tim: 25:15

any one of those John Gordon books, you know, I got hooked on John Gordon when I read the carpenter, you know, and that's been kind of become my motto, love, serve care. Um, Simon you know, is another one, leaders ask why or start with your, why is another, is another great topic? And it, you know, again, it being from the coaching background that I've come from. I just read up on all the great coaches. You know what I mean? I don't care. Yeah, I coach basketball and baseball, but I'll read guys football. I'll read, you know, about, you know, I think any of those stories there, I think are just great but they said my favorites are you? I said the John Gordon book, Simon Simonich, um, those types of guys.

Luke: 25:50

those are great suggestions and get into the coaching piece, which. Is the biggest influence on

Tim: 25:56

My mentors, come from St Pat's but, the guy everyone wants to be like, now it's kinda like, you know, Brad Stevens, you know, I'd watch him his days at Butler. and then now he's gone on to, the Celtics and it was a successful coach in the NBA, but, you know, he's kinda always had that, demeanor, you know, to me, I said, you know, back in the day, you know, you, you, you know, we always thought, to be a good coach, he had to, run and scream and yell and, you know, and he just kind of stands there and he's kind of stoic, which is kind of cool. I think.

Luke: 26:20

what about your contact information? If someone wants to reach out and learn more from.

Tim: 26:25

it's a T Trendal. So T T R E N D E L F S T P a T R I C k.org, T Trentwood St. patrick.org.

Luke: 26:35

All right. Great. And I appreciate you being on, and I know you're a busy man these days with the transition to the other side, as you referenced, hopefully it doesn't become the evil side, Tim. Remember where you came from? Remember those classroom teachers, man. So. But, uh, I know you're going to do great things. I'm excited to follow, follow your new endeavors and thanks so much for being on the show.

Tim: 26:55

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.