How 25 Years in Professional Sports Management Led to Minor League Ownership

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On today's episode.

Shawn: 0:02

help me build a culture of we're going to get people. As far as we can in life, help them reach their potential, not just as baseball players, but as human beings. And from that good things will happen

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Welcome. And thanks for listening to episode eight of The "I' in Win podcast before introducing today's guests. I want to give a quick shout out to black 25 10 who left a review on apple podcasts. And referred to the show as fantastic validating and what we need today. Appreciate the feedback. And for taking the time to leave a review, black 25 10. I'm glad you're enjoying the I and win. Today's show features, major league sports mogul, Shawn Hunter, who is the founder and CEO of the Chicago Dogs. Established in 2018, the Chicago Dogs are members of the American association of independent professional baseball and play at the state of the art impact field located in Rosemont, Illinois. Prior to the Dogs. Shawn spent over 25 years in nearly all aspects of sports at the highest levels. Hunter ran AEG sports and touched nearly everything the global company did, including running the Los Angeles Kings. He spent two years commuting to London while opening O two arena. He presided over six MLS teams. During his long career in sports management. He presided over the Denver nuggets, Minnesota Timberwolves, and also spent seven years as president of the Phoenix coyotes. In 1995, when the Quebec Nordiques moved to Denver, hunter was also in charge with building them into the NHL franchise now known as the Colorado avalanche. He introduced sports sponsorships to university of Minnesota and has even run two of America's top cycling events. Despite receiving numerous offers in major league sports. Hunter has chosen an uncommon path in his ownership of the Dogs. Many consider him to be the most overqualified, minor league sports CEO. However his career has come full circle and he's loving his Dogs who at the time of recording we're in the middle of their first playoff series in franchise history. Shawn success in sports management is rooted in his belief that people and relationships always come first. And despite the high stakes world of professional sports he has always maintained a work environment that was fun and light enjoy

Luke: 2:27

Shawn, thanks for being on the show. And I want to start with this past weekend, which was a historic weekend for you host your first playoff series, earn your first post-season victory. And now you have a one-to-one series and I'm assuming you're probably in North Dakota right now. Is that right?

Shawn: 2:42

I'm actually going to watch the game from Chicago tonight. I'm going to watch our game on television, the stream, and then head up there tomorrow. But yes, it was an exciting weekend first to make it into the playoffs and then a second to get our first victory. So it feels very good. I'm very proud of the team and the great effort they made all summer.

Luke: 3:02

And I have to ask, how does the guy with over 20 years of experience in major league sports, end up owning and running a minor league baseball team.

Shawn: 3:11

Well, I think it's a combination of a lot of luck, uh some great mentors, maybe a little, uh, hard work along the way, but I'm very fortunate to be in this position. My, my entire career has been in the sports and entertainment business. So I like to say that I've never had a real job. I've had, I've had a wonderful career, but never a job. And at the beginning of that career, I was really introduced to minor league baseball backwards. Started with the Minnesota Timberwolves, but I was interested introduced to, you know, the, the fun and the irreverence and the, excitement around minor league baseball. And so for about 20 years, I thought, wow, someday I'd like to do that. And was, was fortunate enough to be introduced to the mayor of Rosemont back in the summer of 2015, and we hit it off and collaborated on what is now Impact Field the home of the Chicago dog. So I'd say there was a lot of luck involved and, um, some great relationships, some hard work, and it all came together and it's the most fun I've ever had in my.

Luke: 4:14

Well, I think belief is a major part of the success as Well, and from research. And yet it's very clear from owners of professional sports teams, to the concession worker and Impact Field all believe in you. So how do you create such buy-in?

Shawn: 4:28

Well, I was early in my career at the Minnesota Timberwolves when I started back in 1989. And I think I might've been the 10th employee hired during the expansion year for the Timberwolves. We were all handed a book. It was called moments of truth. And it was written by an executive from a Scandinavian airline that had written about the turnaround of their big airline SAS out of bankruptcy and the concept of creating great moments of truth. And a moment of truth is a first and everlasting impression. It's a positive impression. Um, but the concept is really to be in the business of creating great moments of truth and putting the guests first. And putting your teammates first, and that's the culture that we've tried to create an Impact Field is everything's built around the fan and the fan experience. And they're the heroes of our ballpark. And, in this wonderful world of live theater of minor league baseball, putting the fans first really is, um, I think it resonated with everybody. That's part of this from the players and the coaches to the front office, to. Security, the people that serve the great food and beverage here. And that's really what as, as, um, you know, been our mission is, is creating great moments of truth. And our goal is to make every day fan appreciation day. And we don't just say it. We actually live it and that's, it's been fun. And this summer, probably more so than any other.

Luke: 5:55

And I think it, you know, I don't mean to speak for you, but I think it goes beyond just the fans. I think you're about the experiences of your manager, your assistant coaches, your players, your front office. And it's, it's very, very clear. You're committed to all of them. And I know you do have some backgrounds with NCAA and athletics, a lot of our listeners are coaches. And in my opinion, what we're discussing is very true of athletics. I think everyone is so focused on, on winning and the irony is, is the athletes themselves really only remember the experience in the long run. And you know, there's a lot of evidence of that when you talk to an athlete post-career, and maybe it's some of the played high school athletics, and now they're an adult. Or what you're dealing with our adult athletes and when they retire, right. If they're going to remember the experiences that you provide for them. So what are your thoughts? Am I way off base on this? That this is really what athletes care about is the experience.

Shawn: 6:54

I think, I think you're spot on, you know, I have a coffee cup that I use, uh, almost every day. And it's about the journey in life. If there isn't a finish line that you know, that life is. And I think that, you know, that's probably what drew me to this particular experiences is the journey and it's air, it's all the things I love about, uh, sport and entertainment in relationships with teammates and fans and coaches. And so, you know, I, I look at myself as I, you know, I w I ran track. I was a, you know, a decent high school and I actually ran a little bit in college. But it was a failed experiment. I was an 800 meter runner that they tried to make a miler and it didn't quite work. The boy did, I have fun and you know, running has been, you know, part of my life up until an injury now, probably 15, 16 years ago. And I went back to swimming, um, in, in swimming, you know, just brings me just great fun and joy. Uh, five days a week, I still compete in swim meets. I don't compete. Against other people, but it, it, you know, I compete just in the sense that it brings me, like I said, excitement and joy and fun and makes me feel, healthy and you know, a complete person. And I, and I think that's, that's important. You know, how that translates to the Chicago Dogs. I hired a great manager back in 2018, Butch Hopson. And then when we met and we're getting to know each other. Which said, you know, his number one job to bring in quality young men and give them a chance to go as far as they can in their career in winning his second. And if I could get comfortable with that, we would be great partners. And boy, have we been great partners and he's done just that, you know, uh, this year seven of our players have signed contracts with MLB clubs. And, uh, which has, is so thrilling for all of us. And it just so happens that we had, you know, a great baseball team along the way as well, because of the culture that he's created. We won our division and like we talked earlier, we were in the playoffs, but it's not all about winning. It's about, you know, it's, it's about, um, doing the best that you can, um, you know, reaching your personal goals and, and, uh, you know, personal bests. Um, but it's not all winning and losing and it's about being part of a team and in something that's bigger than any one of us. And that's, it, it all goes not just on the athletic side here, but that goes back to our mission at the dog's of, you know, having fun and, and w when, when you, you're not having fun. It's really hard to compete. And it's really, you know, as I say, in our Chicago dogs, if you can't have fun, you can't sell fun. And so, uh, you know, everything we do from the front office to the locker room is, is about keeping things light and fun.

Luke: 9:49

Well, I'm just speaking from my lens right now and feel free to tell me if I'm out of turn. I like what you said about your manager saying, Hey, you need the, you need to be comfortable with the fact that I'm going to focus on these experiences rather than winning. And I think that's. Part of why I'm doing this right now, Shawn, quite frankly, as I feel like we've lost perspective of that, I feel like the outside pressures of parents, of fans in your case, the media, it just seems like there's such an emphasis put on winning and scoreboards that we have lost sight of the fact that this is a business of people. Are you seeing it the same way I am have, have we lost a little bit of that perspective? And if so, how. And get it back.

Shawn: 10:33

Well, I think, yes, I think let's start with, I think we have probably, um, Our society put too much emphasis on winning and too much emphasis on winning at a young age, uh, which it has taken away reason why we do participate in sports. And that is for the fun and the comradery and, and, and being part of something that's bigger than any one of us. Um, I think the first first thing we want to do is for me, I was very fortunate. I meant, I mentioned earlier that luck has played an important part of where I am today. And I don't think there's anything wrong with ever embracing good fortune, but, but, but calling it out and recognizing it that hard work and relationships are part of it, but it's okay every once in a while to get lucky. But for me, that was meeting Butch Hobson and finding the right person for us that was going to lead and help me build a culture of we're going to get people. As far as we can in life, help them reach their potential, not just as baseball players, but as human beings. And from that good things will happen. And we've had a couple of good years. We've had a couple of years where we finished, you know, fourth, we, I think last year we might've finished, uh, you know, last in terms of record during the COVID summer. But we continue to create people that are growing in their lives, not just as baseball players, but as people, and, and I think to answer your question is we need to find more coaches for our kids, and we need to find more, uh, assistant coaches to be on our staffs and, and parents that are volunteers that are subscribing to that, that, that, that we're reminded of. Where were we? We first set out on this journey for fun, you know, kids play soccer or T-ball or any sport lacrosse, which is a great, and fast-growing sport, you know, they play it as a four or five, six year olds for the fun not to win. In fact, probably the most fun you have growing up is when you don't keep score. And, and so I think that's, uh, that's, that's a good reminder of every, every once in a while going back to where did it all start and it's that first tee-ball game or that first soccer match or that, you know, that first lacrosse match.

Luke: 12:51

Well, I have to say, I, think my son would argue with you about, uh, Mo more fun, not keeping score cause he's Uber competitive, but, uh, totally agree with you about keeping in perspective of where it all started and where it all starts is with people. And regardless of your role in leadership, I like to say you're in the business of people. I don't care if it's coach, CEO, teacher doesn't matter really. It's about the business of people and the fact that you're focusing on experiences of the fans, your players, your coaches I have no doubt that you will win more games and you're gonna end up selling more tickets because of that approach. So here's the paradox that I would like you to help me understand. And our listeners understand. Why our coaches who make it all about the journey of changing players lives rather than outcomes, ultimately more successful anyway?

Shawn: 13:43

I, you know what I think, I think going back to I'll use Butch, um, I think a guy like Butch, And his approach that his, he sees his job is not to win, but to de develop young people into the best that they can be the best people, the best human beings, not the best baseball players. I think that begins to kind of create an atmosphere and a culture that draws good people together. And he told me, he said, I'm never going to bring you a bad egg. And he hasn't in four seasons in terms of a person. And some are better baseball players and others, but what he does do is he brings good people in and make some better. Um, and, and, and, and, and I think, you know, as I, you, you were asking great questions and it makes, I think makes all of us stop and think about that. But I think it starts with kind of a relentless commitment to bring in good people, a commitment to making, helping make them, uh, get better, you know, on all parts of their life in, in, in creating an atmosphere that that is light and fun. And, and, and that's not easy to do by the way, especially, you know, times, uh, test testis when you lose four or five, six games in a row. And, you know, the, the, uh, the easy thing to do or the probably the most predictable thing would to do is, is to start making roster changes and trades and getting rid of some players. But I looked at back at our summer and w we had a couple of rough patches, but rebounded stronger and went on a couple of, uh streaks running twice during the summer, we won nine out of 10 games. Um, but again, it goes back to butch keeping things fun and light, but it does take a commitment and, not everybody is prepared to do that for us. What I've tried to do for Butch is create a supportive environment around him that it isn't all about winning. And, and that has given him the freedom and the comfort to do what he needs to do to help these young men. And, and I think it's, I think it's been working for us.

Luke: 15:54

clearly your results are speaking for themselves right now. And you know, what's tough though, is what's best for the individual is not what's best for the organization. And I think you have a pretty interesting conundrum and that is the better you develop your players, your coaches, your front office. The higher, the likelihood that you lose them. So how do you balance making decisions based on the needs of the individual versus the organization?

Shawn: 16:22

I think by creating an organization that is all about helping people be better people as a whole, not just better as it as athletes, it is going to benefit the individual. What we try to do is create an organization where people want to come here. You know, these athletes talk, these folks share, a lot of them have played together on different rosters, whether it's in high school or college, or even at the minor league baseball level. And they share stories, what's it like here? What's it like there. So everything we try to do is building a strong foundation of the organization, but it's treating each individual very well from the food that we serve to the housing that we provide, whether it's host families or the hotels, the buses that they travel on, the practice, um, the, you know, the training. That there they're given during preseason and throughout the year, you know, the care of our field. Everything is organizationally strong, but it ultimately touches the individual and helps them be better. But we, we always make decisions that are in the best interest of the organization and that ends up ultimately benefiting each and every individual that are part of that.

Luke: 17:39

And you you've already touched upon your manager. And I mean, he just sounds like the type of guy that I'd want to play for quite frankly. And I know he has a wealth of experience and you did mention storytelling a few minutes ago. You enjoy sitting down regularly and talking with Butch Hopson, and it's not about business. It's about listening to his stories and you truly enjoy those moments of engagement, those moments of humaness. Why is that important for you to do and something that I think that all leaders should do is just sit down and talk with people.

Shawn: 18:12

Well, I think it goes back to where were well, people first. There's a, you know, a starting to finish to everybody's career, whether that's in sports or business, there are chapters that begin and end, but relationships and friendships are truly lifelong. And I, I enjoyed Butch, uh, and spending time with him so much. We have a routine at a, um, I wouldn't call it, not that we're superstitious, but we have a routine on game days that I visit with him twice, once down in the clubhouse, in the middle of the afternoon for about a half hour. And we share stories there, mainly his great stories, because he said such a wonderful career in college. Major league baseball. And, and then I go and sit with him in the dugout, you know, about a half hour before the game. And, we don't say much. We just sit there and absorb a beautiful ballpark and the, and the great, the green grass and, you know, the smell of summer, but, uh, relationships are lifelong. And, and like I said, chapters in business. Usually have a start and a finish. So I tend to focus more on the people and that goes for the front office here too, is when we lose someone, we lost someone recently that got hired away by the Chicago white Sox. And we all had a celebration, a sendoff for him, cause it was a great opportunity and it was a lifelong dream for him to work for an MLB team and you know, a loss for us, but you know, a happy day and that's something we ultimately ended up celebrating and he knows that he's. The dog's family for life. He came in and help make us better. And we're grateful for that. And so we're going to celebrate his victories and he knows he's got an open door back here and it will all be, always be part of the dog's family. So relationships are key. I often tell young people find a mentor. Oftentimes it's a parent. For a relative, it could be a neighbor, but, uh find mentors that that will be there for life that will be there through those different chapters and, and through the ups and downs and mentors, I think for all of us play a a key role in our success and our growth. Um, and, and I think the good mentors, and if we say going back to it, isn't all about. Uh, wins and losses, but it's there, there are mentors that are helping focus on the, the complete person.

Luke: 20:30

Well, we've had a lot of great discussion on what leadership looks like. What you envision what I envisioned. So let's begin to sum it all up. And, uh, I have to give a little bit of a backstory. My dad was a successful restaurant entrepreneur, and he could walk into any restaurant now. And within minutes, I can tell you if this restaurant is successful or not, he has like a sixth sense. And he's usually correct as well. So given your track record and how successful you have been in all of your endeavors. What does elite leadership look like to you on a daily basis? So you walk into a practice of whatever sport it may be. I bet you can tell if there is elite leadership in place, like what's it look like on a daily basis?

Shawn: 21:14

I read a quote probably two or three years ago in a business book that said the definition of culture in an organization is what happens when the boss isn't looking. And I think, you know, you can feel a great culture, whether it's a restaurant, a retail store, a minor league baseball team, I think you can feel a great culture by looking around at the people that work there and the guests. The guests that are there that are, they're either eating or taking in entertainment or shopping and you can look into their eyes and you can see, are these, are these people having fun? Are they enjoying themselves? Are they happy to be there? Whether they're on the serving side or the receiving side. And I think it's a feel probably just like your father can go into a restaurant, do that. I read that quote and thought, wow, that's really what we're trying to do here is create a culture that then when, ultimately when the owner's not there, the coach isn't there, the executives, you know, is, is the culture still great and fun and loose. And for us, the mission of the organization is to create the best ball park experience where every day's fan appreciation date is. Wherever you walk in the ballpark. Can, can you get a feel for that? Whether it's a Tuesday night or a Saturday night, that's what we're striving for. We're all going to have off days, but that's a pretty good report card. Is the culture good when the boss isn't looking.

Luke: 22:42

Absolutely agree. I used to tell my athletes all the time that if you're only training hard because. You're ultimately not going to be as successful as you can be. It shouldn't matter if the coaches that are watching you or the bosses, they're not, it should be this intrinsic motivation of, I want to be the best, so completely agree with you. And I know that you really believe in the importance of preparation. You've already mentioned a couple of books, which is great. What are some some other books, podcasts, or other resources that you could recommend to our listeners to help them become a leader?

Shawn: 23:15

my books that I read tend to be a little bit more on the, you know, on the business and management side, just cause I've, I've. Professional teams for, for 25 years. But I mentioned moments of truth, which is just a great, simple read. And in that book is how, gosh, it's probably 30 years old, but it's about empowering people at every level of the organization to make great decisions for the customer, for the fan, for the game. Um, that's one, you know, bottom up marketing was for people that are in marketing was one of my favorites because it was a good, easy read that just didn't talk about business philosophy. It actually used great examples over the last probably 30, 40 years of big brands around the world that have done great things. Uh, but again, been disciplined and relentless on their execution. Uh, and then most recently I read, I, I think I was on an airplane and might've read a review in USA today about storytelling, uh, that all of us have within us, the ability to tell great stories about ourselves, about our organizations and the book that I read was called stories that stick and it breaks down the elements of a good story. Whether you're a public speaker or not it's a great proving ground. That again, all of us have great stories within us and we have great, uh, pieces of our lives to celebrate. So those, those are just a couple, I travel a lot. So I like to read on planes. That's my place to read where I can focus and that's always treat.

Luke: 24:53

Well, thanks for sharing those recommendations and I'll make sure to link those in the show notes. And as we start to wrap up this interview, I know that you don't live here in Chicago full-time. Despite that you've really embraced the culture of Chicago, which you have to give you a lot of credit for, because this is a interesting city. It's a great city, but we have our own little quirks. So if you don't mind, I want to switch gears from leadership and puts you a little bit on the Chicago hot seat. And don't worry it's not going to be anything too controversial. So a couple of questions related to Chicago. First, are you Chicago style, deep dish pizza or New York style pizza guy.

Shawn: 25:28

Chicago.

Luke: 25:29

What about your favorite restaurant in Chicago?

Shawn: 25:32

Well, that's a hard one there. I could, I could rattle off about 10 I'm loyal, you know, because when I, during the summer, and by the way I live in Denver, but I'm in Chicago between 200 and 225 days a year. So my family would tell you, I live in Chicago. And, uh, but I'm truly blessed to split time between Denver and Chicago, but from a loyalty standpoint, one of my favorite restaurants is actually here close to the hotel where I stay in close to the ballpark caddy shack, which is a big supporter of of the dogs. Caddy shack is in the crown Plaza hotel, and it's owned by bill Murray and his brother. And they've just got great comfort food. They, they, they do a great job. Uh, another great friend of the organization down on Clark street, the Wiener circle which I love having a, uh, char dog and great fries down there. Bub city, isn't another one of my favorites for barbecue having grown up in Kansas city. I appreciate great barbecue. And so, I like to go in there. Probably once every couple of weeks, but those are, those are just a few, but this is truly a world-class city.

Luke: 26:37

Now this one's a little bit tougher north side or south side.

Shawn: 26:41

Neither. How about that? I don't, I don't have to choose. Yeah. I, I have the, the benefit of saying those 150 days I live in Denver. I can say, you know what? I like them both. That's the beauty is, um, about being part of the Chicago dogs. If you want to go see the best baseball in town, you're going to go to Sox stadium or a Wrigley. And those are two world-class teams and venues and our place in baseball is maybe sometimes we're the first baseball game that somebody sees at a young age, or maybe it's just great affordable family fund. But, uh that's a, that's a long-winded thing. The good news is I don't have to choose.

Luke: 27:20

That's pretty smart. If I have the perspective of, I grew up on the south side and then in high school, I moved to the north side and then post-college, I lived downtown. So got to experience a lot of things. And my south siders reject me because the north side, the north Saturday reject me because I grew up on the south side and downtown, it's just kind of a a mix of everyone. So still kind of trying to find my way there, but very unique to Chicago. Uh, should the bears moved to Arlington?

Shawn: 27:49

That's a tough one. I've been following that one from afar. You know, I, it it's, I understand from a business perspective, having, having done what I've done for so long, why the bears would explore a new facility, and they certainly deserve that as the economics have changed and you see so many NFL teams getting new stadiums and complexes around those stadiums entertainment districts. Um, real estate projects, but you know, that's such a historic stadium and I have good memories of, when I was very young, got to go up during that 85, 86 seasons, one of our family friends was defensive line coach for the bear. So sitting in that stadium on a cold day, With the wind, you know, that's, uh, you know, some iconic memory. So I I'm torn on that one. We'll see. I, my guess is nothing's going to happen quickly or in the near.

Luke: 28:46

It usually doesn't in Chicago and then my last and maybe most important question, what happens if I order a hot dog at Impact Field and ask for ketchup?

Shawn: 28:57

Well, we, we won't abuse you like they do maybe down at the Wiener circle after 10:00 PM, uh we won't dress you down. It's it's not recommended but we won't throw you. You'll still be treated, uh like everyday's fan appreciation day, but we highly discourage, ketchup on a hot dog. We know that that's, uh, almost against the law.

Luke: 29:18

Well, you're more politically correct than I am, and I love the hashtag of no ketchup and the evil villain, ketchup it's great. And again, appreciate you embracing the unique culture of Chicago. So how can our listeners connect with you and the Chicago Dogs?

Shawn: 29:33

Well, our website is the Chicago dogs.com and, we hope folks will come out and give us a look and come out to our ballpark. It is truly one of the nicest baseball stadiums in the country. Not just a minor league. It is, you know, it's a great family experience and welcome feedback from anyone. And if anyone wants to reach out via email to me, it's Shawn h@thechicagodogs.com and Shawn is S H a w N. And I always, uh try to respond to anyone that reaches out. And, uh, have good dialogue, but I, I love what you're doing Luke and encourage you to keep being a positive influence on young people and coaches and, and making sure that we keep a little fun in our, on our day and our week and our lives.

Luke: 30:22

Absolutely. Thank you, for that. And I appreciate you having fun with us here. And let me ask those light-hearted questions at the end. I wish you nothing, but luck and I do agree that is the nicest ballpark around it. It's an absolute beautiful facility. You really do put the fans first. You also take great care of a lot of the, you know, little league organizations. And I just encourage everyone to Chicago land area to go out and, and support a great baseball team and great people and you and everyone else in an organization. So thank you so much and nothing but continued success going forward.

Shawn: 30:54

you, Luke.

30:56

All I knew about Shawn Hunter coming into this interview was this impressive resume and professional sports. So I was both excited and nervous, not knowing really what to expect. After talk with Shawn, his humbleness and genuine desire to create better people, not just better athletes is inspiring. Like all successful leaders. He is not afraid to take an uncommon path or to make tough decisions. However, where he separates himself from others is his ability to put people first. I have links to Shawn's email and book recommendations in the show notes links to my social media and email are in the show notes as well. If you have recommendations, please let me know. Love to hear from you. If you're finding value, please recommend this podcast to others. And remember the more I's we impact in this world, the more everyone wins. That's The "I' in Win!