The Best Victories Won't Be on the Court

Luke: 0:00

This is episode 26 of The"I" in Win Podcast.

Shay: 0:03

and I would say the one common denominator between these, these leaders. Is, you'll never meet anybody would say a bad word about any of them. They don't have enemies. They, they treat people with respect, kindness, people root for them

Luke: 0:27

Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the I N win today. We welcome Mr. Shay Boyle, president of Notre Dame college prep. Shay. Thanks for being on.

Shay: 0:36

Luke. Thanks very much for the opportunity. It's an honor privilege and really enjoy your podcast and glad we were able to get.

Luke: 0:43

Well, I'm excited for this conversation. I want to start with a little bit about you because this is really the first time we're meeting. Just a quick rundown of who you are and how you got into education.

Shay: 0:55

Yeah, thanks Luke. So I'm currently in my second year as president and already in college. And this is my 10th year here at the school. So I, I came here as a director of enrollment and then I was promoted to vice president position over institutional advancement and enrollment. And now my second year as president. So I started this role 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, uh, July one. So a great, great time to start, uh, some valuable leadership lessons. I'm sure we'll, we'll get into, but I came to Notre Dame, college prep from Gordon tech high school. The director of admissions at Gordon tech, I was a head varsity boys, basketball coach there for four years. And that was after a six year college basketball coaching career. I spent six years for at Loyola university, Chicago as an assistant men's coach and two at Lewis university on Romeoville as an assistant men's coach, both working for head coach Jim Weitzel. And before that I was a computer consultant for a big company, downtown called PricewaterhouseCoopers. I am. You know, I was there for three years after my graduation from college. Uh, I was in 1999 graduate at university of Notre Dame And kind of did a total 180 in my career after Pricewaterhouse and went to Lewis and got my MBA, my master's in business and coach basketball. And that was really the impetus into my career in the educational path. Uh, you know, basically since 2002. So it's, it's been a great.

Luke: 2:16

And how did you transition from college basketball coach to high school admissions, and eventually working your way up to high school?

Shay: 2:25

Yeah, I think the common denominator Lucas was people. I think when you're, when you're a college basketball coach you're working on college camp. All day long you're in the people business. You're getting to know people, you're getting to know a diverse set of people and kind of in that little bubble, sometimes as a college coach, you know, you meet some, the most fascinating people in that world. Everybody's connected to one another. And, uh, through my connections with my coaching staff and my players, you know, just so many different branches of relationships have gone across the country to the point where, you know, anywhere I go and visit with my family, we take a lot of summer roads. You know, I'll look at a list of colleges, say, who can I stop in and visit, you know, from my old world as a college coach. But I think just through those relations relationships, skills and people skills, it translated from the college world to high school? uh, into the recruitment world. You know, I always joke look that, you know, when I was a college basketball coach and we'd have to bring. Anywhere from one to three or four guys a year, whereas a high school admissions director, you know, we have to bring in 200 to 300 kids a year, so a lot different and you have to pay tuition to the Catholic schools for high school. Whereas college you're trying to give them a $400,000 scholarships, just a different take on it. But I think the skills that I learned as a college basketball coach was an easy transition for me into my role in recruiting fundraising, and now administration leadership here at night.

Luke: 3:49

Well being a university, Notre Dame grad, I'm assuming you follow the Irish on the football field. And as a recording this episode, there's a lot of debate over the college football playoff and. I would argue that your Alma mater deserves a shot if they keep winning. I think they really hurt themselves with that Cincinnati loss, but you think that deserve a shot.

Shay: 4:09

Yeah, I'm with you, Luke, of course, I'm going, I'm going to go with it. You're one of the few people that would actually give me that give me that lead into promoting the fighting Irish to be in football playoff. So I'm a huge fan. I get back for a lot of games and, uh, you know, support the Irish whenever I can. But I mean, I've read today. They haven't given up the touchdown in the month of November. I think the last 12 quarters. They've been perfect. I got an opportunity to meet our new defensive coordinator, Marcus Freeman at an alumni fundraising event last summer. And what an incredible guy. I mean, I just meet him the one time. I, I knew the Irish were destined for great things and I knew it, it hurt him to lose the Cincinnati and all credit to Cincinnati. And I've said for weeks, they keep winning. Good things are gonna happen. Guys are gonna knock each other out. And hopefully the Irish will be standing there with a one loss record when it comes time for the final four. But I think they're playing their best football. It's a sign of a great team. They are definitely playing their best football at the end of the year without arguably their best player. Kyle Hamilton.

Luke: 5:07

Yeah, no doubt. I think they definitely deserve a spot in the conversation, but before we get too much on that tangent, uh I figured you would be in favor of my thought of giving them a shot. Let's get back to you. And your role as president. What exactly does the role of president of the Catholic high school look like? Cause a lot of people may be unfamiliar with that position.

Shay: 5:25

Yeah, for sure. In many Catholic schools, look, there's a president principal. So the way my position works here, I work hand in hand with our principal, Dan Tali. He's an unbelievable principal, a great leader here. Uh, the principal side of the house is more academics. Teachers, student life, kind of day-to-day school operations. Whereas the president, I have a couple different roles. One is ensuring the capitalist city of our school as a holy cross high school. Um, I'm the second lay president in the history of the school. So, you know, we are sponsored here by the brothers of holy cross. So our job here is to make sure we are a Catholic high school. Uh, secondly is the financial stability of our high school. Obviously, you know, we, we need to be in a great financial picture And the way we get that done is a few things. One enrollment, I oversee the enrollment. Uh, to fundraising success. I oversee the advancement fundraising department in three, our business office, our finance team. So all those things kind of are under my direct supervision on a daily basis. Uh, there's other things such as maintenance and know the building operations department, all reports through me and I have a great leadership team that we meet regularly to kind of make sure all bases of our school are covered. But, uh, at the most simplistic form academic side, principal business side,

Luke: 6:45

And what would you say is the most crucial trait that someone in your position really needs to possess?

Shay: 6:51

Yeah. I think for me, the most important thing has been iPad. A lot of opportunities to lead throughout my career. And many of those opportunities came through my experience in athletic world, but having leadership experience to learn how to deal with so many different parts of the day. So many different stakeholders, you know, as president, every single day, I talked to. I talked to department chairs. I talked to teachers, coaches, counselors, donors, alumni, and that's every single day that's and that's usually seven days a week. Um, so I think the leadership experience, and I think the other thing is, is hard sometimes when you're new to the high school world. Fortunately, I, I had put in, you know, my, uh, 12 years before I became president. So I knew how the high school landscape. I knew a lot of the kids. I recruited every single kid here through my job as the enrollment director. So I had a really good understanding of what makes a student successful here at Notre Dame. What makes a teacher, a coach, a counselor successful here at Notre Dame? So I've had a lot of that. I didn't have to figure that out on the fly, especially during the pandemic period, I think. That experience was, was key. Uh, the other things I would say is just, you know, being flexible. There's no question that every single day of my life here at Notre Dame is different. No matter what I think that day is going to look like it usually goes a different direction and that keeps it exciting. There's no question about that. I think through all that, just having a positive mindset, you know, leading with our values. Um, you know, keeping, keeping the idea that we're here for the students, the students and our families here, you know, they're, they are customers and we got to do everything in our power to make sure they have the. Experienced during high school as possible. And you know, I'm an energy giver. Luke's I, you know, I have to set the tone. I spoke at our leadership Institute here last week for our top leaders. And I that's my challenge to the students. You know, who's going to bring the energy every day when there's good times and bad times who was going to bring the juice, who's going to, who's going to do those types of things. Instead of I walked in here every day with a poor attitude, I would expect my staff and students to reflect that attitude. So that's something I take personally every day in a high energy. And enthusiastic, you know, I eat, sleep and breathe this position. I mean it's 24 7 365. There's no days off, no matter where I go, it's there's always something with Notre Dame on my.

Luke: 9:10

Yeah. There's no doubt that positive attitude and negative attitude are equally contagious. So you definitely have a direct impact on your staff and your students. And I'm assuming you probably have learned that along the way. And you've had some great mentors. So who would you say has been the most influential person in your.

Shay: 9:28

Well, that's a great question. Look, I, you know, I, as I think about it here, You know, first shout out to my wife and Michelle. I we've been married for 15 plus years here and she's also a teacher. So, uh, it's a great, uh, opportunity for me every day to kind of share ideas, to see what what's going on in her teacher world, because I didn't get that gives me a perspective. It's very important that maybe some leaders don't have that, that outlet to kind of understand the mindset of a teacher, what they're going through, especially the last two years. And she's been a teacher for a long time now at Whitney young high school in the city. Uh, and she's the smartest person. I know she's the best teacher. I know. And she's, she's, uh, most innovative, uh, teacher. I know as well. So, you know, she's been a great influence to me in my career and encouraging me to take chances to take risks. I mean, almost every position I've ever had. Luke is a, a position. People said, you know, what are you. You know, you've got a great thing. Why are you leaving? You know, w how could you possibly think to do that? And, you know, that's, uh, you know, some people find the best jobs. I was always under the impression, if I can go somewhere and help make a place better, that's what I'm looking for. Uh, and I've been so fortunate that the opportunities I've jumped into if all ended up working out. So I'd say my wife has been a great influence on me, my mom and dad, uh, to the best leaders I've been around. And as I think about all the sacrifices that they made. There are four, four children. I'm the oldest of four. And I think it was thinking the other day. I think they, they sponsored 68 years of education for my brothers and I and my sister. And, um, you know, just never, never complained. Just always want us to have the right opportunities in life and, you know, made sure that we were. You'll just good people. I think at the end of the day, we were kind, we lead with our hearts. We make good decisions. And I, I attribute a lot of my success to my mom and dad. They were always leaders in our schools and our communities through coaching and just any, anything we needed. My mom was a teacher as well. Um, so I would say that. And then professionally, one of my biggest mentors. Uh, Jim white soul. He's a head coach at university of Buffalo. He gave me my start in college coaching and, uh, he's, you know, he's the best in the business. He taught me so much about working hard about the value of preparation, how to treat people with respect, um, in the recruiting world. A lot of the things I learned from Jim and a lot of the relationships, and I would say the one common denominator between these, these leaders. Is, you'll never meet anybody would say a bad word about any of them. They don't have enemies. They, they treat people with respect, kindness, people root for them. Uh, Jim taught me a lot and, uh, you know, if I needed something professionally, he'd probably be my first, my first phone call to make. Uh, and every time I've needed something, he's picked up the phone or written a letter on my behalf and he continues to have a great coaching career, uh, university of Buffalo.

Luke: 12:17

Well, that's a great list. And thanks for sharing that, you know, between your wife, as a teacher, the influence of your parents and their selflessness and your mom being a teacher as well, you had, the coaching profession as well, the influence of coach Wensel. Is that how you say his name

Shay: 12:31

Uh, white. So Jim white soul.

Luke: 12:33

Coach Whitesell. Sorry about that. So how do you think they're influenced, I know this is kind of a big question because you mentioned four individuals, but how do you think their influence has impacted your decision-making as a leader?

Shay: 12:45

Yeah, I'd say first and foremost, foremost. As, you know, treating people with respect. I think at the end of the day, we, we're all busy. We're, everybody's going through a lot of different things. And, you know, at the end of the day, if you can, you can leave work and kind of shut it down saying, you know what? We treated everybody the right way. Uh, you were kind to people along the way. There's a lot of tough decisions. There's no questions, a lot of challenges that come into my role as president each and every single day. But, you know, I know the responsibility that we have to these young men here at the school. And if we can treat each with respect, there's no way we're going to know what every kid is going through, but we have to, we have to do what we need to do to make sure we understand them at a different level. Uh, especially, you know, with, with young men here at the school, um, the best advice I'd ever got Luke, when I was at Gordon tech was from a coach, rich Columbus, really successful basketball coach. Now he told me when I was at Gordon tech and the best victories in your day will never be on the court. The best factors always be off the court. And that's the development of young men and young ladies and women when I was at Gordon tech. But, um, it just, those are the behind the scenes things that I see that make my job special. And, uh, that's what I took away from a lot of the leaders that have been in my life, how to treat. I stay in touch with people, um, making sure they know that, Hey, we're here for you in good times, bad times. Everybody's going to have a bad day. you know, we won't turn our backs on, on these young, young kids. That's what it's all about. And as I imagined, you sound that positive attitude every day, that people can approach you, uh, you were available to people and they say the best ability is availability. I heard that somewhere along the way, and I that's something that stuck with me. You know, I'll drop everything. If a student needs something here at the school and that's most important part of my day,

Luke: 14:32

you mentioned. Promote it to your role in the myths of a pandemic. And you know, prior to the pandemic, a lot of my friends are not in education and they always had a lot to say about me being a teacher. There's these preconceived notions, positive and negative, and that when the pandemic hit, a lot of people had things to say about teachers. So what's some common myths that you have heard about.

Shay: 14:56

Well first, I would say just your point, local about. teachers. Uh, I use the word hero. I use it anytime I speak in front of anybody that will listen about the last two years about our staff, our teachers, or counselors or coaches in my book. They're they're the real life heroes. Everything I've seen here at Notre Dame. There's no way we could have been as successful as we were for our young students here without our teachers. Uh, we're one of the only schools we did not lose one person. Uh, during the pandemic, everybody came back, you know, schools couldn't find teachers that couldn't find subs. Every single person came back and they were all involved in our planning here at the school to make sure we were as safe as possible. Kept everybody healthy. And I think it's a big reason why we are where we are today, but just want to make sure people understand that anything you hear about a teacher there there's nothing better than being a teacher. And the role they played is you can't talk about it enough, but, um, I would say here at Notre Dame, look one of the myths about education. Uh, I think I hear this loud and you people think all kids learn the same, you know, and, and that's, that's not, uh, not, not a true statement. We are 745 boys here at Notre Dame where the biggest all boys high school in the state of Illinois, uh, but that's 745 different personalities. That's 745 different backgrounds. And our kids come from over 140 different elementary schools and 40 different cities every single day. So imagine the uniqueness of their learning styles. Some kids come from public schools, Lutheran schools, private schools, Catholic schools, and it all comes together here at Notre Dame. So the idea that we can teach every kid the same as is something that I think Notre Dame does a really good job with, from our different programs that we have. Uh, you know, if a kid has an IEP or a 5 0 4 learning plan, you can still come to Notre Dame. Uh, we have a program called the Burke scholars program. That's innovative one of its kind in the country. You know, we have kids with pretty severe. You know, moderate cognitive disabilities, autism down syndrome. We're allowing that student to get a Catholic education at Notre Dame. And it's, that's one of the best parts of my day to see our guys in the Berg scholar program. So, you know, we realized here that, you know, in boys learn differently from girls too. That's another big, uh, kind of myths out there. I'd say that. Uh, S squared away right? Every day here at Notre Dame, we, we know that we have to schedule our classes a little bit differently. We have a hour long break. Every single day. I call it halftime break at school where, you know, you can go outside and you can get launched. You can go meet with a teacher, you can go get a workout in every single day. And that's something unique to all male high school, like Notre Dame college.

Luke: 17:33

Well, let's get back to that positive mindset. It's very clear. It's from the 20 minutes of talking to you, you definitely carry a positive mindset. I can just tell from the conversation with. Very passionate about the things we're discussing, but also let's talk about the realities that there are frustrations of teachers and coaches today. And I am not talking specific to your school just globally. Generally speaking. What are the frustrations that teachers and coaches are facing today? What are you hearing out there?

Shay: 18:02

Yeah. There's no doubt, Luke. Um, as heroic as the teachers are, I mean, there, there are different things that have changed specifically. I'll speak to the last two years, but I think just what has been asked of teachers and coaches. You know, it's not a clock in cloud clock out job. I mean, in the same realm of my world band, 24, 7 teachers and coaches, they're living the same type of lifestyle. Now we've asked teachers to adapt to a whole new way of teaching. I mean, we flipped the switch on March 13th, 20, 20, and March 16th. They were teaching in their houses, you know, w we didn't skip a beat. That was not easy on a lot of people. It was not easy to learn a new technology. It wasn't easy being in front of your students, having to change everything you have known as a teacher. And now, you know, we're not only concerned with their education or concerned with their education, but, and working we're concerned about their mental health, their physical health. And when we got everybody back to school, you know, now we're, we're teaching in a, in a classroom where your own safety, the safety of your, your family is safety of the young men that. It was constant. You know, you, you, you could feel that everywhere. So, you know, it didn't become as much about, and what are we learning day to day was more like, Hey, let's make sure everybody's good. Let's make sure everybody's in person as much as we can. Um, what those responsibilities are, are, are endless as a teacher and as a coach in the same way, our coaches were unbelievable. I mean, They stepped up big time. They were in the gyms, they were on the fields. They, they provided an opportunity for these young men to be together, uh, for their mental health, their physical health. And, and for that I'm eternally grateful as well, because that was one thing we try to do here at Notre Dame, as much as possible to keep our guys here together because our guys need to be around each other. They need to see their friends. Uh, our teachers and coaches recipe, role models, or SB mothers, fathers, epidemiologists, ventilation experts. I mean, you name it. They took on A lot of new roles last year and they did an amazing job.

Luke: 20:06

major part of your role, really any leader's role is to inspire to motivate, right? Or there's a difference between leadership and management, then your role is leadership. So given these realities of the frustrations of teachers, I should say maybe the difficulties of education today, what are some ways that you inspire? The staff, because there are going to be bad days of teachers and he, or she may come to you and just may not be feeling like they're doing a great job or whatever it may be. So how do you inspire and motivate in school leadership?

Shay: 20:40

Yeah, that's a great question, Luke. And I think, uh, the first thing is, you know, teachers inspire me and I think. Every day when I'm working, you know, it's, it's a really easy trap and administration position that you can sit in your chair and your closed door office all day, and you'll be busy, you'll be working. Uh, but to me that's not fulfilling. You know, what fulfills me every day is I have to intense. Walk around the building. You know, I want to be there when the kids are coming out of their classrooms to go to lunch, or, you know, we all have supervision periods. You know, last year I ran a lunch period out on the front lawn every single day of the year. And I got to see teachers in ways that I didn't get to see them before I get to see students like that. But I think, uh, showing gratefulness for the work that our staff and our teachers do, it's probably number one. I mean, they need to be acknowledged as much as possible for the work that they do. You know, they're sending kids out of Notre Dame to some of the best colleges university around the country to great military programs and trade programs here. Uh, those young men are not getting there without the it's a sacrifice and the hard work of our teachers. Um, you know, I, I see them as role models and, you know, any opportunity I get to witness them and their, their craft to acknowledge the work that they're doing to share feedback. I would say I get a lot of feedback from parents on the extreme events. I hear the extreme good. And I hear the. Yeah, not so good sometimes and, uh, more on the student's side. But when I do get great feedback, I try to immediately share that with the teachers and in my message to our students every day is thank a teacher every single day. Take a little bit of time, write a card, right in the email. Thank your teachers and your coaches for what they're doing for you. Because you know, we're blessed to have the staff that we do here at Notre Dame. It's unbelievable group.

Luke: 22:28

And underlying theme. And a lot of your answers is this idea of a relationship. And I agree with it. I think it's really important to have a personal connection within a school teacher, to teacher, teacher, to student, student, to student it administrator. and and the list goes on. Why is it important for teachers and coaches to create these personal connections with their students and our athletes?

Shay: 22:51

I think it comes down to trust Luke, I think. When students trust that they can go talk to a teacher that they can trust that a teacher is giving everything that they have to their education. Uh, it makes for a great learning environment. Um, you know, we always say, you know, as a coach, you know, your athletes will know if you're all in, or if you're not all in as a coach and your students in the same room. They can pick up on that and the school as well. And you know, for me, we're very fortunate that our teachers stay involved. It's like I said, it's not just punching a clock, it's moderating a club, it's coaching a sport. And we have a lot of people here that volunteer their time after school. Uh, this is not a place that shuts down at three 30. I mean, we're, we're cranking it and ordering from 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM. I'm most. And the way, uh, the reason we're so successful is because we have people that put in that time. So I think just the, you know, the trust factor that that's certainly important during their four years at Notre Dame. But even afterwards, I'm always amazed at how our alumni come back. And when I'm speaking with our alumni and I was down at the university and ordained two weeks ago for a conference and I, we have five of our students that met me say hello, and every single, um, first question, how are the teachers and coaches doing. How's everybody back at school. You know, I coach Matt Mooney who played for Texas tech and the final four, you know, he's been in the NBA and the G league. I was at the final four. He scored 22 points in the final four game. And Michigan state family invited me to come say hi to him at the party afterwards. And his first question to me after a final four win how's everybody back at Notre Dame, that's something I'll never forget. And, uh, you know, I always get a little bit emotional just thinking about that moment. Uh, the high point of this young man's life, he, he, he wanted to talk about Notre Dame, college prep, teachers and coaches.

Luke: 24:40

Yeah, that's an awesome story. And it definitely speaks to the job that you're doing and that all teachers are doing and why I'm doing this podcast. I mean, I think so many people are unaware of what's going on in these schools day in and day out. And there's a lot of inspirational stories beyond just the stuff that you hear on ESPN that our teachers are doing and our coaches are doing. So with that, what would be some easy to implement steps that you could give to our listeners? That are teachers and coaches that they could start doing today to foster and develop relationships with each individual student, because there is an imbalance there's one teacher and 30 kids in the classroom, for example. So what are some easy to implement strategies you could share with our listeners?

Shay: 25:22

Yeah. You know, from what I see here at the school and things that I've experienced in my educational background. And like I said, from my own wife, you know, they're little things throughout the day to go a long way. It's greeting each student as you walk in the door to. I mean, how powerful is that? Just say, good morning. Say good afternoon. How's your day going? You might not catch every, every guy in your class, but you know, that, that, that stands out. Uh, the teachers that have had big impact in my lives, I've known they they've cared. And I see many teachers here, you know, they sh they show up at a basketball game. On a Friday night, they come into a football game, they go to the play, they go to the concerts, uh, they're moderating clubs. Those are, those are teachers. And the students recognize that they know that. Uh, they know they see some people in the hallways at 5, 6, 7 o'clock at night that don't have to be here. They just love the school. They love supporting the guys. And I think when you're going to have that relationship outside the classroom and only makes it relationships in the classroom that much stronger, uh, back to that trust factor, that respect factor that, you know, what, if I am going through a bad day, I could confide in a teacher. Um, you know, I could ask for advice from a teacher. Again, I mentioned how those relationships carry over. They always come back. They want to see their teachers. And I think the teachers on the front lines of our school, they're, they're the ones that recognize talents in our students that maybe we don't see as administrators, you know, they're the ones that are referring kids. Hey, you know what we have mass next Tuesday, you should really think about reading it mash or. Or, you know what this club needs a vice-president or present you've shown great leadership skills. You know, you mentioned you liked cars. Did you know we have a car club, things like that, that we would never maybe see, but the teachers, you know, they're great for recommending students to get involved. And if at the same time they see a student that's struggling. They're probably the ones who are going to tell a counselor, or they're going to send me a quick note, say, Hey, shave, you got a second, man. Make sure you bump into this young man. You know, he's struggling. It's not sure what to do. And we rely on our teachers for a lot as we've talked about, but I think they're extremely vital to a young man's success and recognizing their ability.

Luke: 27:27

So, what advice would you give to someone who's listening? That's interested in becoming a school administrator. What would be your advice for them to be successful as they embark upon a leadership role within their school?

Shay: 27:39

Yeah, for sure. I'd say, you know, concentrate every day at being the best at your current position. You know, I think as a, as a college basketball coach and a high school coach, you know, sometimes guys would get caught up in that next job and they, they cut corners or maybe make decisions that aren't. Uh, I think in everything you do every single day, you know, we know that every role at Notre Dame is so important. You name the role. If one person doesn't do their job the right way, it's just going to S you know, it's going to snowball down the line. You know how our building looks, how people are greeted when they come in and out the follow-up, the phone calls, um, you know, the teaching, coaching, everything that goes into a successful. Um, th that all goes into it, but I think the idea of being the best, you know, be where your feet are every day. You hear that slogan a lot. Uh, I, I think that that's really important thing. And then, you know, just the networking, you know, and sometimes you got to look forward a little bit, you know, to always be evolving. I think the best thing for me that came out of the quarantine period is, you know, just the idea of being a lifelong learner, having a growth mindset, Yeah, can I get this back to my wife? Hey, you should listen to this podcast or, you know, here's a couple more books, you know, I had a lot more time than I usually have, but I do think back to some of those. Challenge me from a educational perspective. I think you've got to keep growing. You have to keep being willing to learn, and whether it's a teacher, new teaching methodologies us as a, as administration, adding new classes, you know, making sure that the boys are learning the right. And, you know, throughout COVID it just everything we had to change in our school? building to stay open. But, um, you know, just, I think if you focus in, on, on like growth mindset and being a lifelong learner, you're going to keep having opportunities. And at the end of the day, nothing matters if you're not a kind person, if you're not a good person. So I have a big slogan outside my wallet just as be kind. And anytime I got a question last year, something wasn't going the right way. I would just point to this. If we're kind, we'll figure it out. It might not be the best answer. You know, everybody's not always going to agree, but let's treat people the right way. Um, and at the end of the day, you'll, you'll hold your head up high. Even if things don't go your way in a certain.

Luke: 29:54

So final question, I gave you a magic wand and you could create this utopian high school. And again, this is not about your school. Just generally speaking, you could create this perfect place. What would that utopian school look like?

Shay: 30:10

That's a great question. Look, a utopian school. Um, let me think here, I'll start with, I'll start with the students. Um, And I'm just going to kind of reference the students we have here at Notre Dame. I think we have a diverse student population here. Our guys come from a lot of different places and, you know, they bring a lot of life experiences and they bring a great sense of energy. So, you know, when I see our students, I see students are willing to learn Everybody's success here is getting involved. I see a school community where kids are involved in a lot of different things. You know, you don't, you don't fall in silos. So I see students that are willing to learn, get involved, take chances. You know, they get along with each other willing to get to know each other. I see a faculty and staff. That's relentless in their love of education and caring for their students and leading in a lot of different ways. And I see an administration that will work tirelessly to get. Every opportunity to our faculty staff that, you know, keep improving as, as a school, uh, new facilities, new technologies, you know, just, you have to be a school is willing to evolve with the times. And I think the underlying thing here for me at Notre Dame, Lou, that I would want any school. It's the spirit of family here at Notre Dame. It's how our guys look out after each. It's a spirit of community with our alumni coming back and our families are close here at the school. The friendships that you make, I think that's gotta be a part of any school community then, you know, just the overall spirit and tradition of this place. I mean, you, you go to a game, you go to a pep rally here. I mean, it's just, it's, it's out of control, the level of enthusiasm and spirit, and those are things we're working to get back your day by day. You know, this year we're seeing a lot more. Or normal activities, but you know, guys really support each other at the school. And when you see a school community that supports each other like that, uh, that level of kindness is there every day that togetherness guys are connected, man. That's uh, to me, that's a great school environment.

Luke: 32:16

Well, that's a great way to wrap up this conversation. I know you're really busy, as you said, it's a 24 7 jobs. So thanks for carving out some time to talk with us and thank you for your role in education. A leadership role, especially in today's world is not an easy role. So thanks for taking that and being a positive mindset, growth mindset. I love it. And just really what you bring to the table each and every day to kids and the influence you're gonna have. Is, like you said, you never really truly know until they come back and tell you. So thanks so much

Shay: 32:46

thanks a lot. Lo keep up the great work. Your podcast is great.